to just be bored of it?

[LimitedEditionLady]

I am sure many people share my angst here.I am SICK TO DEATH of asking him to do one sinple job and it taking him seven days with my consistently reminding him to do it for it to get done.He does NOTHING in the house,no diy,nothing and the little jobs like just washing a cup he simply leaves for me.So i say to him yesterday " you know its getting really boring having to remind you constantly" so he tells me im boring for nagging him.Erm....I just asked you to do a simple job and you havent done it as per usual so that your fault is it not?I am just fed up of basically having to run the house,finances,sort out ds alone and looking after a 30 year old man like a teenager.He goes to work but apart from that he does nothing so why is everything my responsibility??aibu.

I don't have the attitude that 1 person should be telling the other what to do, quite the opposite. it does take 2 for a relationship to develop the pattern of 1 partner doing all the housework and nagging the other. if you don't want this to happen you don't nag them, you tell them that if you are to live together then this is what you expect and you are prepared to live alone rather than be treated as a domestic slave. Some women do seem more inclined to moan about their partners than refuse to tolerate their lazy behaviour and tell them that they won't be treated as a domestic slave.
We got a new washing machine earlier this year. it came with an instruction book, we are both capable of reading it and both did. it lives in a drawer in the kitchen in case we need reminding on any points.

Mam

Mam

Sorry phone mess up!
Well basically you are saying that my son will grow up lazy.

Not lazy, just thinking, "Why should I have to do it if my dad doesn't?"

I'm having a little boy and I'm adamant that he is not going to grow up seeing that the women do the housework whilst the men do nothing. It just isn't an option.

Thats exactly what im doing with my son now writer,he doesnt know daddy doesnt do housework atm as i do cleaning most when hes in bed hence why its the right time in our house for myself to say to oh enough is enough as when ds gets older he may notice.Ds is actually very good at tidying and laundry brings a tear to my eye,hes fab.

Rebecca,i have talked to him.You seem to believe this is my fault so ill leave you to your opinion.I wont just go on strike? and leave everything to go to pot as I wont have my son brought up in a messy house.Not fair on him.I dont struggle to cope what I am annoyed at is having a partner who isnt a partner.To me thats his choice not mine.

I'm having a little boy and I'm adamant that he is not going to grow up seeing that the women do the housework whilst the men do nothing. It just isn't an option.

I have a little boy, aged 7. He has two big sisters. He tells them and me that we are beautiful, he tells us he loves us and he helps out and does little jobs around the house. He also sees his Dad do things around the house. Dad does most of the child care but even without that he would still see his Dad do things.

Look im out of this conversation,i was talking about my oh not my son,dont cast judgement on my two year old,he will be what he will be when he is older.His dad being lazy doesnt mean my son will be or that my effort means nothing.My oh is not a bad father,hrs just crap at house stuff.End of conversation about my child,you dont know fact.

limitededition I know where you're coming from (I think) -

I hate the way the whole 'men not pulling their weight' conversation becomes about blaming women.

I'm delighted for those women who have found partners who do what they should as a matter of course. They are the exception, not the rule.

One thing I have noticed which is depressing is that men who get by domestically one way or another when they live on their own drop the ball completely once they move in with a woman. There's a lot to unpick in that transaction (woman does things more readily, changes sheets more often, cooks more healthily etc etc, all of which bring more work - but also man sits back assumes it's all happening without him being involved now and is quite content to lie around and have his metaphorical arse wiped - where is their self respect? really?)

Lazysusanne, I agree with everything you've said.

btw - once and for all, lets stop blaming women with the 'leave it for hm to do and THEN see how long it takes him to get his act together' thing.

Oh, by all means try it. Give it a go, why not. But it's not a 'lab conditions' experiment, because you will always be there to pick up the pieces, if not now, then in years to come. The magic housekeeping fairy still exists - they're just on strike. Esp if you have children. You're not going to let them live in a shithole, are you? or go to school in smelly clothes? And what can you do if you have a partner who will wear a stinky shirt and pants, or who just eats takeaways or will warm up food in dirty crockery rather than wash it up.

Maybe if you're very hardcore - putting dirty plates/clothes out for the bin men rather than just leaving them - inviting friends round for dinner and wine, then letting them see the shit spattered toilet or the kitchen covered in maggotty plates, then being clear it's the man's fault. But how many relationships survive that behaviour? I'm not ruling it out - I just think most women wouldn't do it.

I've read those posts from women whose teenage sons get angry when asked to do domestic tasks, but don't have an answer as to why they should be excused them. I get the same reaction from my partner sometimes. He DOESN'T HAVE A REASON NOT TO DO THEM. But he FEELS as if it is a terrible imposition. He FEELS as if it just can't be expected of him, what with him WORKING and all that. (I work full time btw - and am main earner). It's not a rational reaction, it's an emotional one, and no matter how feminist and egalitarian I am, my dp was still raised in a culture and family where men were privileged and women just supported them. And did all the wife work.

Please, recognise how powerful all that is. Would you ever argue that racism or homphobia can be conquered by black people and gays just not putting up with it? Then accept this is a sexist problem we have, and individual magic wands can only do so much. And hope that we raise our children, boys and girls, to live in a more equal world.

Jeans yes i think you do.I can say one thing from this situation it shows me i dont NEED anyone else if I dont want them around.I can do things alone and Im sure people who have good partnerships can too yet this is what annoys me about right now i feel like shouting "show some bloody enthusiasm for this family unit!!I dont NEED you to do anything but you should WANT to!!!!"

men who domestically get by one way or another when they live alone completely drop the ball when they move in with a woman"

My parents divorced when I was 5 but I always had a very close relationship with my dad when I was growing up. When I was 19 I moved in with him (as he lived in the City I wanted to go to University in) and what was the first thing he did??

He sacked his cleaner who he'd had for over 6 years

I'm no angel but I'm better than that. I think the answer may be that I lived alone for several years and if I didn't do it nobody else would.

*When I was 19 I moved in with him (as he lived in the City I wanted to go to University in) and what was the first thing he did??

He sacked his cleaner who he'd had for over 6 years*

that's a 'you dont have a dog and bark yourself' sort of response isn't it :(

Andrewofgg - with respect - and I mean that, I do appreciate men posting on these threads -

I think the 'if I didn't do it nobody else would' thought is part of what goes wrong when men move in with women.

I am in no way saying this is your problem, or situation, cos I have no idea what it is! But in plenty (most) heterosexual relationships I know, for men, once they are cohabiting, 'If I don't do it nobody else will' seems to become 'I don't need to do it because SHE will'.

So many people have pointed this out in different debates - men don't lack the motor skills to vacuum and change bed linen. After all, they can drive and use a computer. They don't lack the intelligence and skills to organise a birthday party, invitations and party bag etc. After all, they can set up a meeting at work. But they just don't. It is just not part of their cognitive 'map" of life.

That is very very hard to live with, or change, unless you have decided your role in life is to be a very traditional wife.

Oops - x posts - writer' that's awful. But yes, that's what I'm talking about.

limtededition - yes. I've thought that. I loathe it when other women get sniffy about me criticising my partner's (sometime) lack of involvement.

An aside, but as well as being the main earner, I do half of the hands on parenting/childcare. and the majority of the household tasks/organisation, such as it is (I pay a cleaner to come in once a week, which is a huge help). We both work pretty much full time but are self employed, so can work whenever we are able. Yes, my partner will do bathtime etc without complaining... but the children would never see a dentist if it wasn't for me, iyswim. There are umpteen daily tasks that would never get done if I either didn't do them myself, or NAG god knows how many times until my dp does them. Shopping seems to require me nagging and making a list. Bed linen can be done by him, but only after several weeks of asking, and resisting just bloody doing it myself, and frankly, escalating anger. Why do I have to do all of that?

Talking to a friend about this - a liberal one, and a mother herself - she said to me, 'can't you just do it all once the children are in bed?'

Eh? Apart from the fact that I work nearly every evening (curse of the self employed) - the answer to the fact that my partner automatically leaves so much to me is simply that I do it when the children are asleep?

Cultural attitudes run deep.

I remember a time when I was the main earner and paid a cleaner for a while to ease the burden, but the thing is I had to pay her.
I suggested that he ought to pay her because he was the one not doing the housework while I was at work the response was 'No way!!' even though he was hardly working and had enough free time to do the house work.

We always say, 'does your husband help with the housework/childcare'
we never seem to ask a man if his wife helps with the housework.
In the same way that we never seem to ask if it's possible for a man to combine having children with having a career.

BeCool. Actually I think it was my husband who showed me how to use it!

Should have said that when I married him, my mums was a very old fashioned thing, quite different to his more modern set up.

Lazysusanne - yes, all that.

I still get told that I am lucky my male partner 'helps' me. Or when I complain about something he has done badly (and I'm sorry, but there is such a thing as doing something badly - do laundry and shrink clothes, do washing up and leave food on plates, etc etc - that's not 'doing things differently', it's just doing them badly) - I am told 'well, at least he's trying.' And I'd say most of my friends are fairly liberal Guardian readers.

If I was a man...and worked the same hours or more as my partner, earned more than them, but still did half the childcare, did the majority of household tasks and the vast majority of household organisation (buying clothes for children, making doctors/dentists appt/liaising with school/sorting activities/dealing with other parents/organising birthdays, presents, being point of communication for extended family, organising childcare, etc) - a lot of people would think I was a saint, and my wife was a slut. Or possibly ill, so unable to do much.

But I'm a woman, and I do all that. So I'm expected to just suck it up. And not fucking moan, eh?

Jeansthatfit, thank you. We are all different and I can only speak for myself.

When I got married I was well and truly used to the idea that if I wanted the place to be neat and tidy and the food to be on the table and the clothes washed, I'd better get on with it because it would not just happen.

It's partly that and partly that my father was blind and could not help much, and my sister was a lot older than I and left home when I was still small, so from a very early age I took it for granted that I could and would do my share of the housework. Perhaps that makes me unusual; it was an odd upbringing but it worked. Anyway, I was trained to be able to run the home and to think of it as natural that I should, and I think that's the key.

Things changed when DS was born (now 28) because DW never went back to work and we became a bit of of a fifties cornflake family - obviously she took more of the housework because she was here more. And I have to say that I recognise the picture of setting up a small child's parties and the like as being the mother's role - well, I did say I was no angel. But unfortunately in recent years DW has had a series of spells in hospital and I revert to type; the home is in good order when she gets back.

DS has now moved out, and his flat is always spick and span - and he is a better cook than either of his parents. Whatever else we have or have not achieved we have trained up a man whose future DP/DW will not have the cause of complaint that OP and so many others have!

I flat shared for years.

All the men were great at their own laundry. None of the men I flat shared with ever did a fair equal share of housework. Ever!

Educated liberated nice intelligent chaps, all like living in a nice home and largely left it to their female flat mates to either do it, ask them to do their fair share, go on strike and let the place descend into a tip or get tutted at and frowned at for daring to get fucked off about it.

Actually that's not quite correct - I had 2 gay fjat mates, both of whom pulled their own weight domestically.

A woman's problem essentially is she will not let the place get into a tip, but a man will.
It is like a game of chicken, that men win.

I think that does sum it up Gold, I cant really see much of a way round it unless women refuse to set up home and have families with men.

I think more women are choosing this option, but still probably a quite small minority (?)

andrewofg I applaud you (and your dp) for raising a ds who will pull his weight domestically! Makes me very glad to hear that.

As an aside - in gay relationships, both men and women, jobs tend to shared a lot more equally - and gay parents are apparently more likely to share hands on parenting and work roles, rather than assuming that one partner should take the work 'step back' and become the main carer.

Lots to learn from that, I think.

lazysusanne, the older I get, the less I think the unequal division of domestic and family care in a cohabiting relationship is fixable, on an individual level. I hate saying that - I'm generally fairly optimistic, and a pragmatic feminist! But what I see in relationships around me is the woman giving in and doing it all, or getting resentful, and the man getting angry at being asked ('nagged') to do things such that the relationship gets very sour. Or ends. What I very rarely see is men changing their behaviour.