To complain about this??

[absentmindeddooooodles]

My ds is 2.9. He goes to the nursery down the road one day a week. ( cannot afford for him to go any more regularly) just to get socialised and to try and work on seperation anxiety. velcro child syndrome

Went to pick him up today and was met by three of the nursery workers "wanting to have a talk".

This got me really worried as they looked very....strict. like I was being bloody told off.

To cut a long story short....they told me that as my son is still in nappies I would have to think about taking him out of nursery until the problem is sorted!! ( problem him not being potty trained)

They talked for a good ten mins about how its an inconvenience to them having such a big boy needing constant monitoring incase hes done a poo.

I didnt want to get into an argument and never would infront of all the kids, but did put across a couple of points:
. He is in "the baby room" as they call it. Babies from birth to 3 years. There are fewer older toddlers than babies....so I imagine they should be all set up forpchanging nappies.
.theybe never said anything to me before about him being in nappies being an issue. I have even had discussions with his keyworker about the favt that I had tried potty training him but he got a v bad bout of chicken pox right in the middle of it so we have gone back to square one.
. I dont personally think he's too old to be in nappies. He's not 3 until april and as long as he isn't rocking up to his first day of school in pampers Its fine.
. He is currently undergoing a diagnnosis for adhd and possibly as. It's bloody hard enough to get through the day without making him do something hes not ready to.

Their response to all the above was that he is more than old enough to be using a toilet and by him not doing this its taking time away from the babies who actually need looking after!!!!!

Out of the three of them who spoke to me....the youngest one ( about 16 on placement) told me it was disgusting to have to clean up a fully grown childs poo!

Im reeling and actually v embarassed as there were quite a few other parents round while this was going on.

Now I know ianbu to not be impressed with the way this was dealt with......but aibu to not have potty trained him by now?

Should he be totally out of nappies by this age? This is my first dc and moat friends dc are younger thn mine. A family member had their dd totally dry through the night by 2.5....but all kids are different.....surely its down to the individual?

Im sorry this has been so epically long...but am at a loss!
.

I would do nothing about the neighbour. That is all based on conjecture and you have no evidence she is even involved.

Stick to the facts. If you even hint at something personal or a vendetta where there is none you will damage your credibility.

Besides, you don't need to add anything. What has happened is outrageous and that alone is enough to tackle.

I did wonder if the neighbour was involved. I would personally try and distance relations with her. Don't mention this to her but don't help her any more. Just be busy and unavailable, there is nothing she can do to you.

I only mentioned it because it all seemed to come from nowhere but you know now there is a source. Don't mention it in your complaint but at least you know what happened in your heart.

I'm genuinely shocked they were so stupid to send those "statements' to you. They really did shoot themselves in the foot.

I hope you get somewhere with the complaints. It really is beyond awful the things they said and to be frank the leggings thing was just ridiculous. The whole thing is ridiculous.

Good luck!! And keep us updated!

Thabks both of you. When it comes to affecting my ds then damn right I can be scarier than her and then go and rock in a corner with a bottle of wine

I wont be taken for a mug anymore anyway. Regardless of whether or not she had anything do do with this enough is enough.

Thing is the lad from nursery said he would write about her in his statement as the first day she worked there was when everything started according to him. ( didnt ask him tonput anything specific...this is literally what he came out and said) I never mentioned my neighbour to him or to anyone so she has obviously been talking as this lad knew whole situation.

I wont mention it whatsoever unless im questioned by someone on it. Really dont want it reflecting badly on me if its taken the wrong way like you say.

Just pissed off at everything right now tbh. Never askedfor my life to be interupted by all these ridiculous people and just resent them having had an affect on ds.He was doing so well with everything snd I really dont want this to be a step back in anyway.

Have been intouch with ofsted. They have a representative from the right department calling me back in the next hour or so, so I can make the full complaint and discuss any further action. They were very helpful. :)

Don't even think about the neighbour while you sort all this. As k8te said, you will lose credibility if you bring any of that into this. It may be personally hurtful but you need to stick with the facts of what the nursery has done and said here. Nothing about things you've done for the neighbour or what she gets or spends her money on.

If the nursery start referring to your neighbour telling them stuff about you, it puts them in a bad light so just don't engage with any of that.

Lying bastards!! I know what it feels like to read statements full of bullshit so you have my sympathy and hope it works out for you! Any twat with those attitudes towards toddlers should absolutely never be working with them!

Totally agree with k8middleton.

Nursery have behaved disgracefully in every way, regardless of the reason. Don't bring the neighbour situation into it, as then it does become personal. You don't need to get into the reasons why this has happened when making complaint to ofsted etc - the facts speak for themselves.

I wouldn't even drag the boy into it either - you don't need him; they've already shot themselves in the foot. It actually makes things messier having him involved.

And thankyou too leafy ( only saw comment after I posted)

Will definatley be distancing. Hard when your front doors are a foot away from eachother!

But like you all day will just say no.

I am usually very assertive.....but my judement is always a bit out when kiddies are involved.

OP, I just wanted to comment how extremely well you're doing with this.

I'd ignore the next door neighbour/trainee connection if you can. I know it must rankle, but you have more than enough for a formal complaint without going down that road. You can stay well on the moral high ground here, and you'll find that by dwelling on that relationship, your energy will just be sapped away. Ignore them.

Coming back to the complaint - two things strike me.

1. The completely untrained person diagnosed your child with a disability. And the nursery then decided that they would COMPLETELY ILLEGALLY discriminate against him for having that perceived disability.

2. They have plucked from the sky the idea that he's not happy at home. Rather than follow what I'm pretty sure are clear guidelines and raise this with a health visitor or Social Services, they decided that their best help for the two year old was to banish him.

I'm not in the industry myself, but either one of those issues would independently set of massive blaring alarms in my head if I was in child protection.

You've also got,

3. The information that they gave you at the 'meeting' on Wednesday bares no resemblance to the written information they have given you previously. So they're even failing in their written reports, or they were misinforming you yesterday. Whichever it is, the two should match.

Finally, just so you know, my 8 year old can't eat without getting himself messy. He has mild dyspraxia. Nobody has suggested that he magically resolve his dyspraxia to make their life easier. The idea that they're treating a 2 year old this way is absolutely sickening.

Ok so the consensus is to leave boy and neighbour out of it?

Boy will be emailing me a statement so I guess I could just keep that incase it comes to needing it at any point.

I dont have his email so will send one to him once I recievw his saying thankyou etc but will just hold onto this rather than complicste matters.

Im really keen not to involve neighbour in any way at all. Would like my life to stay nice and quiet and dont want to feel wary in my own home.

Will have to set some boundaries. ( theres currwntly 3 of her friends mopeds on my drive again without permission.....and shes knocked twice this morning to ask to borrow the hoover. Again!! ) I said no to the hoover and will go ask thrm to move mopeds as cant actually get out of my gate :-/

I hate people sometimes!!

my 2yo ds often requires a change of clothes after eating and is nowhere near potty-trained. Sometimes he raises his voice - could you ask them to diagnose him too?

Bloody stupid isnt it vamp.

Hell sometimes ds is even naughty....he has also been known to throw things on occasion

Hes actually still quite upset the poor thing. Keeps saying he does not want to go back to nursery etc.

Ive reassured him that he wont be going back and that sometimes people say unkind things and to take no notice. He seems to be taking that quite well.

After this phonecall and visit to council ( delayed slightly) has been sorted. Will have a lovely afternoon with him and bake some cakes or something. :)

There are three issues with the neighbour and you need to deal with the separately:

1. Neighbour as neighbour. She's rude and trying to take advantage of you. You don't have to help her out if all you get in return is rudeness, you don't have to let her friends inconvenience you. Be polite but firm. If she tries to escalate things and intimidate you or get her friends to do so, deal with it as you would any nuisance neighbour - log any incidents and report to the police and the council.

1. Neighbour as member of nursery staff. You've not personally dealt with her at the nursery and don't know for certain what involvement she may have, so ignore the fact that she is there. Your complaint is with the management and with the staff you have dealt with directly. If someone else knows she instigated things, that is for them to bring up in the course of the investigation.

1. Neighbour as mother. If you believe she is neglecting her child - not feeding properly, leaving to cry for hours - then you should report that. Speak to your health visitor and or social services. It's may look bad to do so at this particular point but you shouldn't leave neglect to continue simply because you didn't act earlier and now is an inconvenient moment to mention it. If you dislike her parenting style but don't think it amounts to actual neglect, then stay out of it.

As for who gets involved in the nursery complaint - that's not really your call. Report the facts to the relevant authorities (as you are doing) and give them the names of all potential witnesses. Pass on all your evidence, including the supporting statements that people have sent you so far, but it's not your job to investigate and ask people to write them. That should be done by the independent body.

Poor little thing, shouldn't people who supposedly want a career in caring for children be having the opposite effect on them? It's disgraceful. I hope you both have a lovely afternoon.

Pull ds out. Wankers. Report to ofsyed. Of course hes not too old to be in nappies

And the 'messy while eating' thing is ludicrous. He's 2.9! I've just put a dressing gown in the wash because it has porridge dropped on the front and one sleeve has been dunked in hot chocolate, and that belongs to someone who's 3.9.

Er, 39.

OK, I admit it - it's mine.

Punk that made me laugh. Sounds famiar. Haha.

R.e neighbours parenting: I did bring up my concerns with my health visitor a couple of months ago. Asked tobe kept aanonymous as didnt want any teouble but concerned for the little girl and for the mother if im honest.

I know a hv went round for a visit to check things out ( neighnour came round talking about it) but neighbours mother is heavily involved ( shes even worse!) And I think that hv is involved now.

Think it must be an ongoing thing as have seen hv come and go a few times. ( same hv as mine....v small area)

I will have no more involvement with any of it. With hvs involved surely it will all be dealt with accordingly.

I didnt ask anyone to make a statemwnt. The lad at nursery said he would be sending me one as hed like to contest the stories of the other staff members. I dis give him my email though. Made it clear that he should only have involvwment with the situation if he wanted too. I dont think the manager is aware of any of this.

I really didnt go there with the intention of gathering anymore help or witnesses. Just asked for the lad as I knew him nit being directly involved with the situation would give me more of a chance of getting hold of ds records.

I just want to come and post another message of support for you, having read the entire thread. I have a son the same age of yours and feel traumatised on your behalf for the way he's been treated. It is appalling and wrong on so many levels. I have lots of friends with kids the same age as yours and I would say only 1/4 of them are potty trained at this stage (and mostly girls, for some reason). My son isn't potty trained either. A friend's daughter the same age goes to a nursery who do the potty training for you! It's definitely something you have to work on together, not something the nursery can passively expect to just happen for their own convenience. The way your situation has been dealt with is unbelievable. The staff are damning themselves in particular, I feel, by making bold diagnostic statements about your son, and also their interpretation of his behaviour, particularly when contrasted with a very positive written statement 2 months earlier. I'm kind of boggling at statements like "he doesn't do as he is told all the time" wrt a 2.9 year old, which strikes me as an unrealistic expectation for any child that age, and frankly insane in a childcare professional.

Anyway, good luck. You have lots of supporters here, and rightly so.

And yy to dealing with neighbour via council and police ( as neighbour not nursery dtaff) so far she has been a nuisance and just taken the piss.....if it gets any worse will deal with it accordingly :)

I keep popping back to see how it's all progressing. It sounds like you have things in hand for just now, I'm happy your DS isn't taking it all to heart - I'm sure that he will be ok.

You are doing so well to keep calm and level headed about this. I'd love to know what them 'taking it further' actually means! Jerks.

If they report you to SS I'm sure the HV will see how ridiculous they are being. I'm pretty sure most two year olds do the stuff they mentioned. My daughter does! I'd actually send the lad's statement just in case. There have been so many cases on MN where someone has been totally in the right making a complaint yet it went nowhere.

Why is the consensus to leave the lad out of it?? This doesnt make sense at all. Hes the best one their is to get the nursery to change for the better,

He knows how its truly run from the inside and for the sake of the poor kids who stll go there, this needs to change.

He has offered to write and statement and be involved, he would have been thinking of leaving because he isna good egg and hates how it is run.

OP this man wants to help you, and its an oppotunity to help the children in there.

Unfortunately this isnt just about your child, but about all the children that go or will go there.

This man is the key into helping expose how utterly shit they are.

PLEASE do not miss out on that opptunity. USE is statement.

Ok I did think that made sense to use the lads statement. I think what posters were refering to was that in his statement there would undoubtedly be refrences to the neighbour and that this may complicate matters?

My ds is out of there now....he will be fine. I am more concernes like you say that the other kids there are treated right and protected feom any of this gross behaviour.

As soon as I recieve the statement I will copy it here and see what everyone thinks.

Ive had the phonecall with ofsted. They were fab. The woman who I spoke to agreed that it was a ridiculous situation. They would like a report feom my hv and I have to send over wvery bit of paperwork I have. Ive scanned in all the record of schievement and all the slips so thatll all be sent in one go.

They will be ringing me back later in the day once theyve got the ball rolling. Really really helpful!

Council on the other hand were crap. Said person I needed to speak to was on holiday for a week. Grrrrrr.

Waiting in a reply from mp as think any involvment there will be a big help.

:)

OHforDUCKSchristmasCake - Because he's not directly involved in the events that took place yesterday. I think OP is better off sticking to facts surrounding the conversation, and the emails, which are already pretty compelling evidence of the nursery's incompetence and stupidity.

If he wants to contact Ofsted or the council to whistleblow directly of his own accord then he should, but his involvement doesn't add anything to this particular scenario, and could be seen as tit-for-tat gossip. It could be counter productive to involve more people than necessary.

Stick to the facts about the complaint in hand - they're well on the way to digging their own graves as it is.