To think that children do not *have* to be smacked

[Mrs4561]

I don't want to give away too much information wrt when and where etc. I was recently stood with some other mums who were having a conversation about smacking, the general opinion was that, sometimes as a last resort children need to be smacked.
The other parents in the conversation all had older children as well as toddlers, whereas I only have 22mo ds, this made me wonder if I am being naive in thinking that you can discipline a child perfectly well without smacking?
I was actually quite shocked, I didn't think people did this anymore. How can you teach a child not to hit others when you do it to them?

I am trying to follow through your logic misjas.

So 13 year old doesn't want to do her homework. You will logically talk it through with her and explain that her decision will have an impact on her future education and knowledge of said subject. Then if she still doesn't want to do it - you are going to do what? And the school should do what?
Honestly I am not trying to be goady - just curious.

Ugh. I'm done with this thread. I'm happy with my childhood, I'm not mentally scarred by being smacked. I know my parents love me and would do anything for me. That's all that matters.

I'm not going around in circles arguing this anymore. Fact is: I wasn't abused. It's not for other people to decide that for me.

Ba bye!

HotPanda - sure, but those disciplinary procedures are just a way to get rid of bad workers. You can't turn bad workers into good workers through discipline

The same with children

Turnips, sure if the 13 year old doesnt want to do her homework, then you can't make her do it. Grounding her, or worse, shouting or smacking her for not doing it doesnt teach her anything positive.

Maybe ask her what she actually wants to do. If she doesnt have any aspirations then try and find some. Self-motivation is a key thing to teach

Loonvanboon very good post.

mijas99
I was asked to explain how I would discipline someone at work, so it was a secondary post. The above would follow on from the "Don't do that because" stage, which I would class as education - you generally don't go straight into a written warning in employment.

Like Turnips, I would like to know what your "last resort" would be if your child persists with a behaviour you have asked them to stop. I've laid out my process, can I see your please for comparison?

I teach my own children, and those in my class that hitting is always wrong, whatever the reason.
It baffles me how any adult today could think differently.

I was smacked as a child, I don't blame my parents, I think socially and culturally it was more acceptable then, and I don't think I've suffered any long term damage.
However they also smoked, while pregnant, and in the house while we were growing up. I don't think I've suffered any long term damage from that either but I certainly wouldn't do the same!
I have never, and will never smack my children. They are 13 and 11 and I have never seen any need to. I can count the times I've shouted at them on my fingers. A shout, if used rarely enough, can be used just as effectively as a shock tactic as a smack can, and doesn't give the message that it's ok to hit people to get what you want.

I do not comprehend why, when you become a parent, you are given permission to freely carry out acts of violence on a being so much smaller than you.

misjas, I would have used 'loss of privileges' as my sanction for not doing homework.
See I think having clear and consistently upheld boundaries is a very important part of being a good parent, and actually promotes the childs development.
I am all for reasoning with children, explaining and teaching, however sometimes this can be a reward for undesired behaviour because it is attention. and also becuase sometimes reasoning just doesn't work with my children!
so my explaining and reasoning comes at the very beginning, followed by clear warnings of consequences, followed by consequences if the behaviour hasn't changed, followed by a 'debrief', the 'debrief' I habe found to be most effective sometimes hours later.

Off to do school pick up- will be back later!

surely not doing homework carries it's own consequences (doing poorly in the subject + in trouble at school) I wouldn't think of that as an area for me to 'discipline' at that age, merely remind what the outcome is likely to be and try to engage some long term thinking!

I was smacked as a child as were most of us 70s kids I think and my parents loved me. it was just accepted rather like drink driving.

my oldest is 23 and he was occasionally smacked, I think it's because I was a young mom and felt the pressure.

my other 3 kids never. much more effective and constructive methods out there.

dont think you can be labelling my parents generation child abusers really as that's daft.

actually dh and I comparing and think we were both hit far more frequently by teachers than our parents. at school from 1968~1982. some of those teachers were bullies and some not.

imagine they now.

Find it interesting on these threads that the 'you're an abuser' posters always say "hit" rather than "smack".

Good for injecting more emotion and making it sound a wee bit more violent and out of control.

OP, children do not need to be smacked, this is obvious and you know this; however, sometimes smacking is used as a last resort in a process of warnings/sanctions, or as a short sharp shock in a situation where immediacy is key (ie on the hand).

In short, if someone was "hitting" their child, I would report them; if someone "smacked" their child then I would find them perfectly reasonable.

Alternatively those who seek to use violence use smack to minimise their acts of violence upon someone smaller and defenceless.

It was definitely the norm to be smacked in the 70s both at home and school.NOT smacking would have caused a raised eyebrow.

I can remember being about 5 and drawing a little tiny star with a pencil on the formica topped table.For some reason the headmaster was in the room at the time and went off on one and put me over his knee and smacked me about half a dozen times in front of everyone in the classt.I don't think it really hurt that much but I was so shocked and humiliated I was still in floods of tears at home time!The next time he came in the classroom I was so scared I wet myself

I would never ever humiliate a child like that

ds is 10. I've never smacked him. I'll be honest, there are times I've had to walk away from him because I've felt that my next move would be to smack and it's not a route I've wanted to go down. I have seen children being smacked and have found it upsetting.

I agree though with someone further up re being more than one way to skin a cat. smacking is not for us as a form of discipline but may be for others.

I don't smack/hit my children and think the child abuse label is insulting, I was occasionally smacked and I'd bet that those actually being abused would have loved my life. Life changes, people live and learn.

That's horrendous intitgrand

Smack is very different to hit, it is not minimising.

'Smack' is a controlled, open hand on the back of the wrist or back of the leg; 'hit' suggests something meant to cause hurt or injury.

It is the 'shock factor' of a smack that gives it its power in discipline, not the hurt.

By suggesting that people are 'minimising', I would say that you are undermining the children that really are being 'hit', which is obviously unacceptable (and I cannot imagine any rational person condoning actually hitting children).

intitgrand yes absolutely. in the 70s parents and teachers who didn't hit were considered a soft touch and especially parents almost lax on discipline.

how times have changed.

I was smacked as a child. I have neither forgotten nor forgiven. I am now 50. I don't smack my kids.

Sorry to trot out the old cliche but as others have said, I was smacked a handful of times (and I remember it was when I was being a royal fucking PITA) and I have never held any resentment towards my mum and am very close to her.

As for it not being effective, my mum used to do the count back from 10 thing with my brother if he was misbehaving and once he let her get to zero and got a big smack. She never got as far as zero ever again after that! As far as I know my brother is now a very well adjusted young man who is very close to his parents and does not feel scared, humiliated or anything else of that nature around them.

Smacking is not a form of discipline I want to use with my own kids (I just don't want to go down that route) but some of the emotionally loaded language used on mumsnet in particular, around a smack on a clothed bum (assault, abuse etc) is rather bordering on hysterical.

And sometimes when DH's niece and nephews are being particularly nasty and brother and sister in law spend ages 'reasoning' with them and explaining why they don't behave in that way towards each other and questioning why they did it Etc, I just feel like saying 'oh ffs just give then a good bollocking and a smack on the bum!'