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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that children do not *have* to be smacked

175 replies

Mrs4561 · 05/12/2013 11:52

I don't want to give away too much information wrt when and where etc. I was recently stood with some other mums who were having a conversation about smacking, the general opinion was that, sometimes as a last resort children need to be smacked.
The other parents in the conversation all had older children as well as toddlers, whereas I only have 22mo ds, this made me wonder if I am being naive in thinking that you can discipline a child perfectly well without smacking?
I was actually quite shocked, I didn't think people did this anymore. How can you teach a child not to hit others when you do it to them?

OP posts:
mijas99 · 05/12/2013 13:43

Of course smacking is child abuse. There are other much worse forms of child abuse, but an act of violence towards a child is still abusive

Shouting uncontrollably at your child is also abusive as is leaving them to cry it out, or even sending them to a naughty step or to "time out" when they are far too young to understand

Just because these things are socially acceptable in some circles does not make them correct

Heartbrokenmum73 · 05/12/2013 13:47

mijas

Wow, judgemental much? Controlled crying is child abuse? The naught step is child abuse? Time out is child abuse?

Well, aren't you just a bucket full of judgemental?

Please do tell us all of your wonderful parenting that is oh so perfect?

ohtanmybum · 05/12/2013 13:47

I can quite understand the momentary loss of control of a very tired, frightened or frustrated parent that might result in a one-off smack and the remorse and guilt that could ensue It is the premeditated decision that corporal punishment should feature in discipline of children that I find difficult. I was never smacked. My Father was a primary head the 50s; he never used corporal punishment and was an effective disciplinarian - firm, consistent and fair. When my Mother was elderly, child-like and totally reliant on me for all her needs, I can imagine the repulsion and censure that would have resulted if I had raised my hand to her. I never have, and never will, understand the distinction some make between what they consider acceptable in the treatment of a child or adult. I suspect those who purposely use smacking in their disciplinary repetoire do so because they can.

Turnipsandsproutswithtinselon · 05/12/2013 13:52

Misjas99 - how old are your DCs? Grin
i too am interested to hear about your amazing parenting techniques.

mijas99 · 05/12/2013 13:53

Heartbrokenmum - simple, we just avoid using violence or emotional blackmail

It really isnt so difficult. A cuddle and a few words can solve most things, and if not, then patience

Turnipsandsproutswithtinselon · 05/12/2013 13:54

Because according to you I am EVIL Grin

mijas99 · 05/12/2013 14:00

Turnip, people who smack are not evil :) But they are not being fair to their children. There are better ways to go about things

If our children are brought up with violence then they create a violent world. We can aspire to do better!

HotPanda · 05/12/2013 14:03

I was speaking about this to my Father when we were having dinner last week. I, and my brothers were occasionally smacked as children. Not when control was lost but it was used as an ultimate threat.

We would be asked to stop doing something once. 2nd time we were asked would have an explanation. 3rd time would have another, smaller consequence (removal of treat or privilege). If we were STILL persisting with the behaviour a smack would be threatened. More often than not we would stop at stage 2 or 3. If we continued, then the threat of a smack was enough to make us stop. If not, then we got a smacked bum. I don't think any of us was smacked more than 4 or 5 times in our whole lives - the threat was enough to remind us that we didn't like it, and we should perhaps stop whatever it was we were doing.
The older we got, the more we would behave on stages 1 or 2 because we learnt going beyond that to a removal of privilege, or a smack was highly undesirable.

I see no issues with that.

I myself have smacked in anger, without warning. That I wasn't happy with and I did think it was poor parenting, but until you are a parent you cannot know where your boundaries are. It happened, I can't undo it.

Those that say that why is it different to hit a child when you wouldn't hit an adult - the difference is clear to me. I am not responsible for disciplining those people. Those that are (the police and justice system) administer their own form of discipline when unwanted behaviours are shown - incarceration (time out), community service and tagging (loss of privileges).

Heartbrokenmum73 · 05/12/2013 14:03

If our children are brought up with violence then they create a violent world.

Jesus, give it a rest with the platitudes. Why do the smug brigade always come out with such crap?

Yes, because me and my siblings are all now hired killers/cage fighters/armed robbers. All down to the smacking.

Don't talk such shite.

Heartbrokenmum73 · 05/12/2013 14:04

Or, instead, what HotPanda said, with knobs on.

Much better than mine.

LoonvanBoon · 05/12/2013 14:06

It seems to me completely obvious to any rational person that children do not HAVE to be smacked. No teachers, child-minders or nursery employees smack children, & still manage to keep them safe & secure & to manage behaviour by other means.

Numerous parents bring up their children without smacking & manage to teach good behaviour through the use of consistent boundaries, positive reinforcement & other methods that are at least as effective as smacking, & without the negative side-effect of suggesting that hitting people smaller than oneself is sometimes acceptable. I'm one of them, as is dh: & as we've both worked as teachers, we've also managed behaviour without resorting to physical force in that context.

I still think it's unlikely that an occasional smack is going to do any lasting damage to a child, within an otherwise healthy parent-child relationship. My mum smacked me on a few occasions - just a single slap - & while I don't remember it achieving anything positive at all, other than to upset me, I don't think of it as a terrible form of abuse either. My mum was a human being, she didn't always behave perfectly. If I'd ever smacked my kids, I'd have apologized, but I don't think I'd have felt eternally guilty. I have shouted, & apologized then too.

What I have no sympathy with is the view expressed by these other mums, OP, that smacking has to happen, that it's inevitable, even good for the child. I find that disturbing, & agree with the person upthread who described this as lazy parenting. It IS lazy, because there are plenty of other ways to deal with difficult behaviour, so why would any parent deliberately & repeatedly choose to smack their child rather than make the effort to develop more effective ways to discipline?

When I was teaching I came across very few children whose behaviour couldn't be managed if enough thought went into the best ways to do that. Any child whose behaviour is so terrible that they don't respond to non-violent discipline is sure as hell not going to be helped by being hit.

LambinsideaDuckinsideaTrout · 05/12/2013 14:06

Hot panda

What if you were the manager and you hit those working under you, those whose discipline at work you are responsible for?

Is that acceptable to you?

Heartbrokenmum73 · 05/12/2013 14:09

HotPanda already covered that with this:

I am not responsible for disciplining those people. Those that are (the police and justice system) administer their own form of discipline when unwanted behaviours are shown - incarceration (time out), community service and tagging (loss of privileges).

LambinsideaDuckinsideaTrout · 05/12/2013 14:10

Hot panda can speak for themselves I'm sure.

Igloofornow · 05/12/2013 14:11

I don't smack but my oldest was relatively easy and he is only 6 so I have a long way to go. I have no idea how I refrain from smacking my 3 year old, he is constant from 5.30 am till 8 pm he hits his baby sister, pulls her hair, sits on her, throws everything I make to eat on the floor and is so unpleasant. When it gets to much I put him in his room so I don't strangle him while smiling.

For those who say they wouldn't hit a rude adult so why would they hit a child, I would knock out an adult who acted like my son! I could never judge someone with a child like mine trying anything to change their behaviour and I hope my DS grows out of it soon, if not we will have to consider SN but until then all you can do is get through the day.

Hats of to all of the other parents doing their best, you must be doing it well if your in the position to judge others.

Heartbrokenmum73 · 05/12/2013 14:11

Gosh, how patronising.

I'm sure they can, but I wonder if you can read a whole post without asking a question that's already been answered.

Hth

MaidOfStars · 05/12/2013 14:12

I was smacked as a child and I'm a wonderful human being Smile

It happened only a handful of times, for serious misdemeanours (not just fighting with other children). The smacks were always delivered by my Dad, after consultation with my Mum to decide if it was appropriate, then the judgement was pronounced and the smack delivered in a swift and disciplined fashion. I was never smacked in anger, in fear or in temper. It was a seldom-used and well-controlled punishment.

I have a mutually-adoring relationship with both parents, who are just lovely people and who I have never observed to even raise their voice in argument at anyone, let alone engage in any kind of violence.

Fleta · 05/12/2013 14:15

Smacking isn't discipline. It is nothing more than an outlet for the frustrations of the parents.

It appalls me when I see people smacking their children. It appalls me when I hear people scream and shout vile abuse/swearing at their children.

LambinsideaDuckinsideaTrout · 05/12/2013 14:15

The question wasn't answered. I specifically asked about them hitting an adult whose discipline at work they were responsible for, and whether they thought that acceptable.

Patronising? Me? Never! Grin

Turnipsandsproutswithtinselon · 05/12/2013 14:16

I was meaning about the time outs and cry it out. I honestly do not see this as forms of abuse, but of consequences. They are informed of what will happen if they do not modify their behaviour. They will face consequences throughout life when they push boundaries. I.e. At school, work etc.
Obviously not cry it out - that was the actions of a sleep deprived mother - believe me I am a far better mother when I am getting more that 3 hours sleep a night!

I have also smacked my children, and thankfully never in anger. DS2 was a biter. Whoever in the world upset him he would come and bite me. He was warned of what would happen, and again still chose to continue.

I think smacking or hitting in anger is wrong, but I also think that some parents may choose to include smacking as a form of discipline, if the action is very serious or dangerous.

To me it is important that all parents provide clear and consistent boundaries, and there have to be consequences for repeatedly breaking those boundaries. Consequences that are made aware to the child in advance, and that are not threatened or implemented in anger.

To me anger is the key - i feel most ashamed when I say/do something to the children in anger. Normally along the lines of "No TV for a week/month/rest of your life" because then I have to follow it through.
Who ever knew parenting was this bloody hard?

mijas99 · 05/12/2013 14:16

Yes because the justice system works so well that 80% of offenders reoffend within 6 months

Discipline itself rarely works in my opinion. Parenting should be about educating more than disciplining. You shouldnt discipline a child for hitting but help the child work out why they hit and talk about what to do next time. It's a simple concept their our 2 year old can grasp so other kids and patents should be able to.

In my job I have a number of people I have responsibility for. I would never discipline them. I educate them to what is expected and how they can meet those expectations

Heartbrokenmum73 · 05/12/2013 14:17

It appalls me when I see people smacking their children. It appalls me when I hear people scream and shout vile abuse/swearing at their children.

The second one appalls me too, but I didn't experience that as a child, just the occasional smack. Which hasn't left me emotionally scarred as the shouting abuse would have done.

Fleta · 05/12/2013 14:19

However you dress it up it isn't appropriate.

"My husband just snapped and smacked me, he's usually a loving and kind partner"

"I just snapped and smacked my child"

The former would be met with outcry. As should the latter, especially as the latter is hitting someone so much smaller and weaker than yourself.

tinkertaylor1 · 05/12/2013 14:20

Is it ok for your husband to smack you?
Is it ok for you to smack a work colleague?
Is it ok for you to smack a rude person in a bar/shop?
Is it ok for you to smack your child?

why is the last one different

^^ this!

You do not need to smack children. It is NOT ok to hurt some one weaker than you.

HotPanda · 05/12/2013 14:21

At work there will usually be a clear set of discipling boundaries.
I.E Do something wrong and receive a verbal warning, 2nd time, written warning. 3rd time next written warning. If the behaviour persists then the ultimate consequence will be issued - the person will be sacked.
If you don't want to be sacked, don't break the rules.
Same applies to the children.
Don't want to be smacked? Then listen when I ask you to do something or stop doing something. If you need telling 5 times to behave as I ask then the final consequence needs be the one you absolutely do not want to happen.

As I say, most instances I wouldn't even need to get beyond stage 2, possibly 3. I have already said I felt disappointed with myself when I smacked in anger as that WAS a loss of control.
Administering a punishment which is a consequence that follows 5 clear steps - I'm ok with that. I do not use an implement other than my hand, I do not smack onto bare skin.

Oh and I haven't smacked for about 4 years. The DC's know the score.