To think that children do not *have* to be smacked

[Mrs4561]

I don't want to give away too much information wrt when and where etc. I was recently stood with some other mums who were having a conversation about smacking, the general opinion was that, sometimes as a last resort children need to be smacked.
The other parents in the conversation all had older children as well as toddlers, whereas I only have 22mo ds, this made me wonder if I am being naive in thinking that you can discipline a child perfectly well without smacking?
I was actually quite shocked, I didn't think people did this anymore. How can you teach a child not to hit others when you do it to them?

Umm - how old is your child Icebeing?

I don't own my children but I am responsible for their safety, behaviour and character as they grow. I will make whatever decisions and choices I deem necessary in the course of that responsibility and I'm loving the judgemental over-reactions on this thread. Truly absurd.

Smacking is lazy parenting, it instills fear in the child rather than respect.

Must have been something wrong with me and my siblings then because we weren't scared of our parents, even as children.

But yes, you just keep on generalising if it makes you feel like the perfect parent and gives you the opportunity to look down your nose at people.

And saying someone abuses a child is calling them an abuser.

Northern

You and I are forgetting about the 'perfect' parents out there. The ones who are allowed to judge everyone else based on one tiny snapshot of their lives.

Funny how every other snapshot of a life is treated as 'mind your own business' and 'what's it got to do with you?'

Like I said I don't know if I will...just that I will hate myself for it.

I didn't say it would tell me all about a person...I said it would tell me all I needed to know.

It is a total red line for me. I can't imagine chit chatting socially with someone at soft play who just smacked their kid. I am sure I am currently friends with people who smack their kids regularly but if I found out about it then I wouldn't be any more.

I couldn't respect someone who thought it was okay.

Not a perfect parent by any means, but I haven't ever, and won't ever hit my child. It's wrong.

Love how you ignored most of my last post.

I do have other red lines....like it doesn't matter how wonderful you are with children or how many charities you fund from your business profits if you fundamentally believe that the value of a person is in anyway measured by their take home salary then we aren't going to be friends.

The type of person who smacks a child it a person who thinks it is okay to exert control over someone weaker than them by force of violence.

It tells me all I need to know about them

Oh honestly what a load of old balls! Catch a hold of yourself.

I'm sorry, but what did I ignore? The part where you repeated about smacking being child abuse? Or the part where you said that we have differing opinions?

This is all subjective. As you said, I won't change your mind. You won't change mine. But I feel that to label the occasional smack as 'child abuse' is completely over the top.

And you called me a drama llama?

I have smacked DD once. She'd been biting children and us for 2 months and we had tried everything possible with an 18 month old and nothing worked. One smack across the legs as she bit me with a very loud no and she has never bitten anyone again. The loud no hadn't worked before but combined with a smack was enough.

Is it ok for your husband to smack you?
Is it ok for you to smack a work colleague?
Is it ok for you to smack a rude person in a bar/shop?
Is it ok for you to smack your child?

Why is the answer to the last one different?

Out of interest, to the parents who do smack, have you had a problem with your DC's hitting other children? And if you did would you discipline them by smacking?

I don't give a monkeys if people smack their children or not.

I do mind people who stand there like wet dish clothes while their children mis behave or moan how naughty they are behind their backs.

Please find a method of parenting your child, before they become a totally unnecessary pain to their peers at school.

I have made a choice not to smack as I do feel it is hypocritical to teach children that it is wrong to lash out for whatever reason, by lashing out.

My view has been shaped by my mum though who was, particularly when my sister and I were younger, what I now consider to be violent and at points abusive. I think that smacking, threats and violence became an easy and default way to discipline. I was scared of my mum as a child and although never a naughty child, I remember dread feelings just being at home. I think it is mainly fear of my child ever feeling this way about me has led to my decision.

That being said, I don't think that any parent that smacks is terrible or an 'abuser'.

I've smacked DS1 once (he's 2.5) because he was acting up and I was tired and had just had enough. He laughed and hit me back because he too was knackered and behaving badly.

I am ashamed of myself for losing control to the extent that I just wanted to hurt him and don't intend to let myself get there again.

My mother hit me a lot. We don't get on very well, despite it being mostly 'just' smacking, because I grew to hate her persistent 'might is right' approach.

I do feel that smacking should be an absolute last resort for behavioural modification, not the start and finish.

I have smacked my ds, usually it's out of fear like when he's about to take a nose dive off a table and I've just seen him at the last second. He never done it a second time. Also I've smacked him on the bum/nappy occasionally when he has just acted out so badly I dispair at what else to do (after sitting on the naughty spot/removing toys/removing tv). I don't agree with the child abuse aspect of smacking, I do agree that some parents can, have and will take it too far. My own being an example. I can clearly remember being strangled by my mother once, my younger brother being beaten with a stick another time. We had fear of our parents. I still couldn't say that we were abused, it was when my parents got to the point that they couldn't control us. Was that a good enough excuse to put her hands around an 8 year olds neck, absolutely not. But we were loved as well, we were spoiled and I certainly couldn't complain about being neglected. On hindsight maybe if they spoiled us less we may have behaved better and there may have been less physical discipline in our house.

Ok, to answer your questions, no, I don't like the idea of smacking by anyone towards anyone.

However, to label it as child abuse is, as I've said, going completely over the top and belittles real child abuse. And as the law currently doesn't agree with you wrt smacking, I'm afraid you taking the moral high ground simply doesn't wash.

And to answer the OP - I'm the eldest of 4. We were all smacked. Not one of us had issues with hurting other children when we were kids. Not one of us. I knew lots of other kids who did though, who weren't necessarily smacked themselves.

ahh well we all have different moral boundaries. Some people will look the other way while friends lie, cheat and steal. Others yet would actually do the stealing....its all a spectrum. Many people have looked the other way on proper honest to god child abuse.

This isn't anywhere near that category....but I am particularly sensitive to any sort of behaviour that indicates people view their children as possessions or somehow less deserving of respect and dignity than adults. I cannot ABIDE ear piercings on young children and I personally could not respect anyone that thinks its okay to hit a child.

But thats okay..I mean I am sure there are things I do that people cannot respect me because of. Actually being an MNer is quite high in the list given some of the people I know.

I think the moment I smack, I've lost control. I don't see it as effective.
I was smacked, I am fine, I still love my parents.
However I remember clearly feeling humiliated, powerless and it making me momentarily gate my mother. It certainly didn't get me to question my behaviour or "learn" from it.
At best, I could say it taught me that my parents were human with flaws.

I think it's hard to spot the difference between parents who have tried but can't think of another way to exert control and parents who can't be arsed to try thinking about it at all.

I have some sympathy for the former but the latter boil my piss

*hate not gare

Aargh *hate not gate stoopid ipad

If you subscribe to the behaviourist model of discipline, which I do in some instances for young children who are incapable of reasoning, I am not sure how much difference a light slap on the hand versus exclusion of the child is going to make. All forms of discipline have some negative aspect for any child. If for example you exclude a child by ignoring them or putting them on the naughty step that is going to damage their emotional well being, if you give them a light slap that will also impact their emotional well being. Basically either way you are saying to the child if you do something I don't like, I will do something you don't like and that way you will not do it again. To me it is incidental how that negative emotion is felt by the child whether it is the result of physical discipline (a light slap) or emotional discipline (exclusion of the child) it all has negative connotations for the child. I think children, particularly small children need boundaries especially when it comes to ensuring their safety and where ever possible this should be done in a positive way by removing the child from the situation, calming the situation, taking control etc etc but when it does, rarely, come down to discipline then naughty step/slapping there is not difference IMO.

No my DDs don't hit other children and they are absolutely forbidden from hitting each other. (DD1 has always been taller and heavier than DD2 which magnifies the 3 year age gap. Both have always had the sense to see fighting will not end well).

I wouldn't be bothered by seeing someone give a wee smack in a supermarket.

What actually bothers me more is the "Oh dear Sebastian please do you think it's a good idea to pull everything off the shelves darling?"

"Now now don't hit, that isn't very kind and it makes mummy feel sad"

The Scandanavian countries are frequently cited as being the exemplars of child rearing and it's illegal in all of them.