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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that this article is just another way to sneer at sahms? Motherism?

442 replies

usuallyright · 18/11/2013 09:56

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/18/sorry-but-being-a-mother-is-not-the-most-important-job-in-the-world

Whilst I agree with some of it, I don't like the sneery tone. There are many similar articles around at the moment about Mothers who choose to stay at home.
Imagine if someone wrote a similar article about working Mothers.
It's just another excuse to pour scorn on Mothers and their choices, which are often complex decisions, not a knee jerk decision to be a martyr..

OP posts:
Permanentlyexhausted · 18/11/2013 22:25

I think the article is absolutely spot on. Being a mother is not the most important job, or even role, in the world. Nor is it the hardest. What may be true for an individual is not necessarily true for society in general.

josephinebruce · 18/11/2013 22:25

It's because the world does not stop just because you are pregnant - there are other things and other people to consider.

dietcokeandwine · 18/11/2013 22:30

Permanently - no, it's not.

No job is the most important in the world, in all honesty.

But that doesn't mean that a SAHP role can't be enjoyable and fulfilling (and boring and stressful and frustrating) just as any other job can.

I certainly don't think being a mother is the most important job ever but I do see being a SAHM as a job. Because childcare is a job. If I went back to being a parent who worked outside the home, I would have to source childcare for my DC and pay the childcare provider to take care of them.

My problem (as for many in my position I suspect) is that with three DC with very different childcare needs I wouldn't now actually be able to earn enough to pay for childcare anyway!

Rufus44 · 18/11/2013 22:35

josephinebruce I certainly spend time sitting around at home

There is a difference between looking after small children at home all day and being at home when the children are at school

And for what's it worth I think the phrase full time mum is stupid and I don't think it's the hardest job in the world.

Mimishimi · 18/11/2013 22:41

I agree with the article for the most part. I hate the phrase myself and I am a SAHM. I can think of way more important jobs but unfotunatelyI do not have the education for them. It's really unfortunate when some women make a martyr job of it - in truth a lot of us don't have or didn't have access to other options.

Permanentlyexhausted · 18/11/2013 22:45

Diet

Permanently - no, it's not.

No job is the most important in the world, in all honesty.

That was my point exactly and, to my mind, the point made in the article.

Goldenbear · 19/11/2013 00:11

'Society' by definition, is reliant upon well rounded citizens for it to exist. How can the actions of parents have no bearing on the outcome of producing well rounded citizens? It is none sensical to say that 'good' parents have no impact on 'society' - they have a very big one, probably the biggest!

JosephineBruce, Yes lets just stop having children- what exactly is your solution to the ageing population of non- workers in Europe?

DoesZingBumpLookBigInThis · 19/11/2013 00:17

goldenbear

"the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world"

Goldenbear · 19/11/2013 00:26

He was absolutely right.

mumofbeautys · 19/11/2013 00:42

gosh whats with the theory if your not a stahm your not a parent lol

I do all the housework
put my kids to bed
play with them
attend appointments
give meds
read to them
cloth and bath them
cook
pay for a roof over their head from working ..... guess that makes me what ? if I am not a parent lol

oh and also offended by people thinking you cant surely do the same for the children working ... I do !!! and work 37 hrs a week .

LCHammer · 19/11/2013 01:09

I didn't find the article offensive. I work part-time. Maybe I should have found it mildly offensive.

Joysmum · 19/11/2013 02:24

All too often when a child does something badly wrong in society, the universal cry that goes up is 'where were the parents?' At work, is my first thought!

When a child is being cared for by an adult, it doesn't stop learning. Life is a learning experience. Whoever has the child for most of the time, or most of the 'quality' time to be more accurate, is the one who proportionally contributes more to the child's learning and shaping them as a person.

If the primary caregiver is a parent, they'll have a greater influence, if it's a childminder, they'll have the greatest influence. The child won't stop learning from life simply because the parents see the time the child spends with others as simply childcare.

My mum worked full time when I was little. I saw very little of her and certainly got bugger all quality time with her as I'd go to bed at 7.30pm and wake up at 7am. She'd get in at 6-6.30 depending on traffic and leave at 8am. That gave her at best 1.5 hours at night and 30 mins in the morning. In the morning that'd be spent getting her and me ready. In the evening there was an evening meal to eat and clear away (my dad always cooked on weekdays as well as doing the general chores). So, at best an hour of quality time with my mum every weekday. She didn't have time to do homework, take me to after school clubs or generally just enjoy being together.

So, was my mum the main influence in my life? Not even close! Yet if I'd got into trouble society's outcry would be, 'where were the parents?' At work, and they had very little input into instilling their values into me or shaping me to be a good adult.

As I got older, I went to bed later and got more time with her.

My dad worked shifts 6 days a week but shorter hours a day so I got more time with him. When times got tough financially he took on extra work and they paid my neighbour so I went there after school until one of my parents got home. I spent more time with other people than with my parents and other people were a greater influence on shaping me.

Hubby had the benefit of a parent at home, we are lucky to be in a position for me to be at home. It worked out that it would be me due to me finding out I was pregnant just after I was made redundant. I was earning more than hubby prior to that and further along in my career.

I don't stay at home as a mum. I never did coffee mornings or watch daytime telly. Being the stereotypical stay at home mum would have bored the tits off me and I'd have at least needed to work part time if that's how I needed to kill my time.

I see the keeping house aspect of not being in paid work to be drudgery and it's unskilled and mostly unappreciated. That's the bit that both working and non working parents have to do unless they get a cleaner in. It's the raising of your child that someone else has to do in your absence when you are at work, whatever the term you choose to use for that.

My hubby is a parent whether he's with our daughter or at work. However, he would never assert he's had as much direct day to day influence in shaping our daughter as I have.

Somebody needed to earn to support our family and circumstances meant it was him. Because we are lucky that his hard work in his career is being rewarded accordingly (when so many others work just as hard and aren't being as well rewarded) it has meant we have been able to get by without my wage. It costs us for me to remain out of paid work. On balance though, it's best for our family but I couldn't have coped as the stereotypical coffee morning/daytime telly type mum. I was never going to be that anyway given my personality type. I'm not a fan if stereotypes but I didn't mix with many of the parents who didn't work because they were like that. We didn't have much in common.

If I hadn't been made redundant then I'd have returned to work part time but not full time, I don't think I'd have chosen to give up my job. We are lucky to have the choice and for one wage to be adequate for how we are happy to live. My parents both needed a full time wage to meet their quality of life expectations but the price in terms of parenting me was they certainly weren't my main influences in my younger years. Pointing this out may not be popular with those working hours that leave very little time with the children (whether by choice or necessity) but it's true. My hubby can attest to that as a working parent. He's sacrificing his parenting time to be at work, I'm sacrificing my career, we are all foregoing the benefits a 2 wage family would have bought. We can only do what we have to, or make the choices we think suits or circumstances best if we are lucky enough to have choices.

I can't begin to express how lucky we are to have choices when so many if our hardworking friends don't have that luxury. We are truly blessed.

mumofbeautys · 19/11/2013 02:57

Sorry joysmum that u feel that way about your own childhood x
I still believe I am the sole carer and biggest influence to my daughter's.
There has to be a balance.
If all single mum's who don't have the other wage decided to give up work, not including carers in that, where the he'll would we be as a country.

Retropear · 19/11/2013 07:05

There is nobody in the world who could care for my dc as good as me or dp.In an ideal world we'd have both been a sahp and worked part time like my sister but reality didn't enable that.

My kids wanted and needed to be with me.I wanted and needed to be with them and that's it.

I was there 24/7 bar pre- school cuddling,comforting,reading,beach walking,feeding,talking,educating........and the cooking,washing etc.

Yes wp can do a lot of that for 2 or 3 hours a day but not full time like I did.It's no physically possible Mum of Beauties.Kind of getting sick of the great pretence in the media and by the gov that they can and you can have it all. For many women may be outsourcing to a nursery is better for their kids but for many like me it isn't and I ain't going to have the gov or any lazy journalist telling me otherwise.I know what is best for my children,not DC,not NC and not The Guardian and quite frankly I couldn't give a stuff who that offends.

My mil was a sahp,she will probably die today.Her greatest joy was being a sahm,her kids loved and respected what she gave them- nobody has any right to belittle or take that away from them.Believe me dp at the moment isn't regarding her as "hobbled" or in any way other than his lovely mum who was always there.

Life is short,children aren't children for long you do what suits your children,your family and you and ignore outside commentators who in mvho are getting just a little too big for their boots thinking they actually have a say in what families do.

dozeydoris · 19/11/2013 07:08

These articles just prod the guilt bubbles of women. If you are SAHP you wonder what you are missing, you are treated as though you are skiving. If you work you are stretched as you are a parent all day long but also having to fit in a long day's work. Also DH's often don't do their share so women have a juggling act.

Gawd would everyone stop arguing about this. There are a million variables, good points and bad points in each scenario, different temperaments, different skills, different childcare options, different finances - it's pointless. Everyone does the best they can for their DCs and themselves.

The woman who wrote the article lives in some sort of commune, according to her website, and she is a comedian and writer. Hardly your typical SAHM or WOHP so is commenting from a pretty narrow view and someone who will have extra childcare on tap because of her home setup.

The article has a thousand + responses. They put these wind-up articles in to attract readers and boost advertising revenue. We should STOP RESPONDING TO THEM. And stop being manipulated.

janey68 · 19/11/2013 07:11

Joys mum- you clearly had a very unhappy experience as a child, which is very sad.

But you are completely incorrect that a child who goes to a childminder or a nursery is going to be shaped 'more' by the cm / key worker than their parents. The parents are the primary influence in shaping their child's experience and imparting values (except of course for the relatively rare situations that the child may live apart from the parents)

It's great that being a SAHM and your DH being provider works for your family. But please don't make the mistake of extrapolating from that, that everyone should be doing it. Or indeed that everyone of us who grew up with a WOHM feels as you do, that your mum wasnt an important part of their life. Or that those of us whose parents had the traditional set up you describe- SAHM - all feel that this was the most blissful perfect scenario.

If there were evidence that children of WOHP were growing up less secure, less able to form good relationships, doing less well educationally and less well in the workplace, and that families where a parent doesn't work were doing the opposite- then you'd have a point.

But there isn't.

So while we all have our own personal experiences, it's important to not assume they are shared by everyone else, and that everyone else wants to do what we're doing

As a slight aside, one view I've always maintained is that I encourage my dd and my ds to both aim for a career which they will find interesting, worthwhile and fulfilling. Of course money is important too... But there is far more of a choice to be had if you are doing something you really enjoy, whereas if you are doing a mundane repetitive job, staying at home could more easily be a 'default ' position.

dozeydoris · 19/11/2013 07:14

Xposted with Retropear.

StealthPolarBear · 19/11/2013 07:14

Writr are you in England? If so that is not right! Pls start atthread in emplyment issues asking for specific advice. Congratulation s!

alarkthatcouldpray · 19/11/2013 07:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Goldenbear · 19/11/2013 07:15

It's not a question of you not being the main influence. It is an impossibility to 'practically' do everything 'some' SAHP do as you say yourself there are '37hrs' when you are not with them?

The actions of 'Mothers' or more broadly, in my mind, 'parents' are not inconsequential. Arguably, they do have the most important role in the context of a civilised 'society'.

StealthPolarBear · 19/11/2013 07:16

Sorry to hear that retro. Thinking about you and your family

dozeydoris · 19/11/2013 07:17

So while we all have our own personal experiences, it's important to not assume they are shared by everyone else, and that everyone else wants to do what we're doing

This applies to you janey68 as much as the previous poster you are pointing this out to.

That's the point, we all have different experiences and views so beating each other up because we differ in opinions is pointless. So let's stop being manipulated by articles such as the one above.

Goldenbear · 19/11/2013 07:26

SAHP was a choice I made not a 'default' position as you so flattering put it Janey. My job pre- DC was very interesting, in an exciting setting but it still had its monotonous parts. My DP is an Architect and his job still has its mundane elements. My DB is a senior partner in a city law firm - guess what? It still has its mundane aspects!

Retropear · 19/11/2013 07:33

The vast maj of us will be wp at some point,do we really have to begrudge 10 years or so as a sahp to do a very important job/ role out of an entire working life?

Also my friend does a few later supermarket shifts to top her working family credit as her dh does short hours.

We have neither of the above to facilitate that so is she less "hobbled" than me just because she brings in a few £? Is it down to cash because if it is my previous job will have produced far more of it than either of the jobs she loves ever would in a lifetime?

Balaboosta · 19/11/2013 07:33

I've never heard an sahm mum say "being a mother is the most important job etc". But if I did, I might consider that this actually was a brave front for feelings of frustration or inadequacy. In which case, I'd be delicate with it and not write a stupid article about it.
(If, on the other hand, I heard a man say this...)