To feel utterly depressed about my MIL?

[Crystalballs]

I'm afraid this is long but I should give some background to put things into context.

DH and I have been together 8 years and have a child. My mother in law pretends to my face that she loves and supports me but it has never felt very genuine. Despite this, over the last 2 years I have started to trust her and believed she had grown to love me in some way. Obviously I'll never be one of her own and I know that, but I felt we had a good relationship.

Yesterday my friend and I overheard her making some bitchy remarks about me (we had taken my DC to visit her at her place of work, and she thought we had left when we were around the corridor after using the bathroom). We overheard MIL speaking to her sister (my Aunty in law), she said that I wasted her son's money (I don't, and one third of our household income is from my earnings), and that I should be more than happy with my lot as I've done so well in marrying her son compared to the rest of my family who have nothing.

Just 5 minutes beforehand MIL had told me she loved me. I feel so hurt and depressed by all this. It's as though we've regressed back to 6 years ago when I first became pregnant and had DC. MIL found it very difficult when DC was born and accused me of keeping her from DC because I wouldn't let her give DC first bath, let her look after DC alone and stay the night at her house at a couple of weeks old etc. I felt at the time very threatened by how much MIL thought of herself as 'mother' to my child. She even referred to my DC as her 'firstborn'.

DH is very supportive of me however it's difficult for him to act on this. The last time he did catch MIL speaking in this way about me, he confronted her but she burst into tears and basically sulked for one month whilst we had numerous phone calls from my sisters in law pleading for DH to apologise to MIL and stop her feeling so sad. In the end we gave in.

If DH or I confront MIL with this latest event it's 100% likely she will again sulk and make herself the victim. I obviously feel like I want I give her a very wide berth for a while but there's only so long I can do this before the sisters in law get involved and all side with MIL because they feel sorry of her.

I am completely fed up and feel so stupid for believing MIL thought well of me. I can't cope with this stupid childish woman any longer.

The second she put her hands on you aggressively whilst you had your child was the second she gets out of your house and stays out.

The very first, and only acceptable first step to reconciliation is that she stops lying to everyone's face and admits the truth, because without that she cannot promise it won't happen again. She has taken it outside her circle of children now and behaved inappropriately around you and your children, and there is literally no reason for you to pretend it hasn't happened like they do.

Crystal, I hadn't read your thread until it reopened.

I have to say, going NC with my Dad's family has been so good for me, and I think, good for my children.

Even when my Dad didn't talk to his Mum, we were allowed/expected to visit. Not often, maybe once a year (we lived a long way away), and when we moved closer, we saw her slightly more. I was sat down by my Grandmother while she told me that my mother didn't love me; she couldn't, she was incapable of love, and other vicious things besides. If I told her what was happening at school, she'd twist it all, and delight in ringing Mum to tell her her daughter was being bullied, and how she was an inadequate parent. I felt awful that she'd used me to score points over my mother.

I was older, but still to shy and nervous to talk back.

Later, I really resented the fact that we weren't protected from her.

My Dad was on off communicating with her for most of my life. There were bitter, angry letters sent on both sides as they outlined each others sins. Then they'd talk. Then there would be a massive blow up. It wasn't healthy, and it wasn't a healthy thing to watch. He ranted about her behaviour to us.

I think I'd feel better (though who knows) if I'd seen dad make his mind up without all the bitter resentment, and if he'd give a calm 'no, we don't see her because she was unkind' answer, rather than being pushed at her in some odd sense of duty, and having the hurt and pain drag on and on.

I don't know if I'm doing it right. I know for sure I'm right with never seeing grandma again. I do wonder if I'll ever be able to see Dad. I have accepted that we'll never have a dad/daughter relationship. I won't be able to let him in and ask him to share my triumphs and pains, because he can't manage that sort of relationship. he goes straight in for trample and control. But perhaps we could, at some point, find a way of conversing about the weather or the roads again, when I've built my self esteem up and learned how to set clear boundaries.

What I think and hope I'm doing, is protecting my children. I'm showing them how to stand up for themselves, and how to assess the people and the relationships in their own lives, and how to be assertive about the sorts of behaviour they will and won't tolerate.

• If I told her what was happening at school, she'd twist it all, and delight in ringing Mum to tell her her daughter was being bullied, and how she was an inadequate parent. I felt awful that she'd used me to score points over my mother

this ^ is chilling.

My DD used to see her GP quite often, we cut it down to a few times a year for fewer hours. They picked her up from school ( a school they disprove of) and asked her if she liked it. She had had a bad day and said no and she only has one friend.

Cue MIL in floods of tears that we are putting her GD through this school. and she is being bullied and only has one friend. They love to undermine our decisions and make us out to be useless and this is what they tried to do here.

lookingthrough

rather than being pushed at her in some odd sense of duty, and having the hurt and pain drag on and on

My DH and I used to have frequent nasty rows about his parents. I cant even remember the last time we did now.

Which is fantastic, as dc are older now and will be more affected by seeing us have vicious rows.

I think the best thing for me to do is give MIL a wide berth for a while.

I can see how this is going to lay out badly for my DC. I already know I want absolutely minimal contact with MiL for my DC because of her behaviour.

Absolutely right that MIL should not have tried to drag me out of the room, with DC on my lap. I need to remind myself of this, it was very upsetting for DC.

MIL has told DC that mummy doesn't let her see them before too. She is trying to make me look like the bad guy to my very young DC already.

It's slowly dawning on me how ill she is. But because she can do all the usual chatting about the weather and no one has ever seen her lose her temper, she looks like the perfect grandmother to everyone around me.

crystal not having much to do with them since Jan is still very soon!

I really hope you are able to find the strength to be strong, and stand firm on this one, and not care about the wider family members think of you. I don't think they have done anything to deserve your respect.

I think to un nerve your mil and hold fast is the absolute best thing you can do,

Its not easy... things like this never are...

Probably the longest we've gone so far though! Yes, I'm going to do something different than what I normally do and not go running back to the to stop the sulk. If they continue with this nonsense, they are only standing in the way of seeing their GC. I'm happier when I don't have to spend anytime with them.

MIL has told DC that mummy doesn't let her see them before too. She is trying to make me look like the bad guy to my very young DC already

I am in the same boat, my DH doesn't like to spend time with his parents, we cant have them at our house for lots of reasons, my DC went to pils alone for only about 3 hours and came back vile, telling me I don't know everything...its taken months for her to be herself again.

You really cant underestimate how selfish and nasty these sorts of people are.

I just wanted to give you a child's experience of this type of behaviour.

Dh had a very toxic paternal Grandmother. They visited once a month, for only a few hours at a time. He witnessed the snide comments and veiled insults from his Grandmother to his Mum. He witnessed his Father never intervening and heard his Mum trying to stifle her crying in the car on the way home.

He has never forgiven his Dad for allowing his Mum to be humiliated and belittled by her MIL.

And we come full circle, I never met her because she decided to try to call by a name I was not known by all because it appeared on my birth certificate. Dh then just DP stood his ground and explained there was no way in hell that she got to dictate what I was called.

A year later, she died so I never had deal with her/meet her. But I did get to know and love my Grandfather in law, who treated me with love and kindness and I watched him change everything in the house now that he could without her say so

There have been many times when my inlaws have hugely overstepped boundaries and we just went NC until they realised that we were the parents and what we said went. My FIL has tried to use Ds1 against me and we told them no.

My own father had a narcissistic mother who once told my 4 year old sister to tell her Mother (our Mum) to "Shut up" when she was trying to discipline her, my Mother got her coat and took my sister and I home that instant.

There seems to be no consequences for your MIL's behaviour, she gets to do exactly what she wants, say what she wants and everyone "forgives" her. Seriously, don't put yourself or your children through this. DH's Grandma never tried to manipulate them but yours does and will.

Good Luck Crystal! Its the only, only way. Dig deep within yourself, and find your self esteem...

Attila speaks sense . I agree she sounds like a narcissist , Google narcissistic mothers to get an idea about what your dealing with. I suggest your husband does the same. Your husband will have his own problems having been raised by such a person . These people are not normal and don't think like you and I .

While all the things you detail are hurtful and upsetting , it really is the standard scripted way in which these people behave . Attila and other experienced people will be able to predict with alarming accuracy what she will do and say next . They are all pretty much the same person.

It is alarming you fear she will bitch to your husband . You must make it clear to him you will not tolerate that type of disloyalty from him . His role as your husband is to protect you , not to cosy up and placate the person who is attacking you, whether it is him mum or not . Men who have these type of mothers can be notoriously weak .

The relatives who ring you and butt in must be dealt with properly . They have no regard for you and are only interested in kissing mil arse. They are commonly known as flying monkeys , think wizard of oz , and if they are successfull in getting you back in line they get monkey treats off mil. Think approval , oh so and so , at least you care about me , your not a bitch like x. They are just as toxic as mil.

Make no mistake , she is not the doting granny , she is an intruder into your marriage and is your enemy .

They are commonly known as flying monkeys , think wizard of oz , and if they are successfull in getting you back in line they get monkey treats off mil

This is hilarious!

Men who have these type of mothers can be notoriously weak we see this time and time again on MN, but how to help them also be liberated and stronger?

I know this is the right thing to do because I already feel like a weight is being lifted from my shoulders.

Yes DH has been deeply conditioned, but he is much better than his siblings who are so deeply entrenched they don't have any independence or their own lives. Counselling will help my DH.

It's all so fucked up isn't it?

I mean they are all adults but seemingly daren't now be friends/in contact with OPs husband as mummy says they mustn't!

at some point my DC will ask to see grandmother

No, actually they won't.

They may ask 'Why don't we...' but then you merely say what Looking said in that their GM was unkind to Mummy and that you thought it best to leave her to it until she wasn't unkind.

Basically your DC will support YOU no matter what (unless someone poisons them against you) as proof/evidence of this, look at your H and see how he's so fucked up by her he can't defend his own DW when she's physically attacked...

Your H may one day wake up, he may see your stance and it may make him think. If you do what he wants you to do for an easy life for him then he never will come to his senses will he? He never will be able to protect his DC from the things you and he have already witnessed/suffered. Don't ever assume that he won't go NC. Going NC is the ONLY chance he has of ever being heard. If you assume he won't and take it off the table, you will constantly look for him to make excuses for her.

Going NC yourself, and insisting on NC for the DC (given her Your mother doesn't love you shite) is the bare minimum you can do, and it may somehow show him that YOU are right and perhaps HE ought to look at NC himself.

You can't go to this thing. you have to make YOUR point. If you can't have it out with her, then you have to show her that she doesn't set the agenda in your household, no matter what she thinks.

Yes this is a pissing contest, this is a game of chicken. This is YOU assuming YOUR role of Matriarch of YOUR family.

You have said to her all that needs to be said, now all you have to do is wait until she climbs down. If she doesn't, then she is the one that loses out. it really IS that simple.

think of this as negotiation. You have stated your last price, and you know you can't budge or you will come out of this at a loss. You know that until she's prepared to pay the normal human being price of courtesy, respect and kindness that, sadly, there is no point in discussion.

Oh no she would never say the words. She just sulks and cries until her DH and daughter find it so unbearable to live with her that they begin to get other family members on board. MIL gets her offspring to do her dirty work for her. This is what I am afraid of for my DC.

If people truly care about you, they will do whatever it takes to win you back and keep you.

I wish I could plaster this all over my FB, so that I don't forget this.

Just echoeing the others, hold fast!

I went NC with my maternal grandparents when i was 18 because i didn't like the way grandma (don't even call her that anymore) spoke and treated my mom. My brothers still go and see her, but she hasn't met my dh, or my two boys. My mom doesn't see her parents at all and she's happy too

hold strong, your children will thank you one day I'm sure.

stand your ground. these people don't and won't change. my parents kept in with my toxic and exceptionally toxic grandparent sets. my pgm was the one we had most contact with and she 'loved' us too. tbh she was there and never played the games she did with my parents to my sister and I but we saw the games in full flow. things have gone two ways now - I stand up and won't tolerate that behaviour which caused untold issues with xmil, but worse is that my sister is repeating pgm behaviour.

when the bile that had been directed at me for most of my life was aimed at 2wo dd sister was cut out. she has lied and cried to people about this. I very simply repeat the same thing when people bring it up 'if sister is so desperate to be involved with my DC, she knows what to do'. in a few weeks we have to be I'm the same room as her for the first time in 3 years. I'm repeating the mantra to myself to repeat to the family members who challenge me. along with 'I did not cause this and do not regret the decision' and the answer to the usual statement of 'but shes your sister/their aunt' -'I'm not interested until she behaves like a sister or aunt'.

its harsh and its clinical but I won't have the drama nor will my kids see it. and to them when they are older I will say 'people aren't always very nice and we dont have to deal with people who aren't very nice'

Op I hadn't read all your thread when I posted . I am stunned that mil put her hands on you . I am even more horrified that your Dh didn't react accordingly and still thinks you owe her a relationship.

Some of the things you mention are very very worrying . Constantly taking the children away from you , encouraging them to keep secrets from you , saying bad things to them about you . What the actual fuck !!!! It's a type of grooming Op , and its emotional abuse of your dcs to say horrible things about you.

Having not read this thread properly I don't know if Attila or the others have mentioned it , but ill say it anyway , and I'm sorry if it alarms you. Many of these people are child abusers , do not for one minute think that's not possible because she's a woman. It go's on , and has gone on in my family . Female abusers tend to abuse subtly while bathing , toileting and seemingly harmless activity.

You are not dealing with a normal person . They have no conscious and no eempathy . Your mil has proved she has neither , she's proved she has no boundrys and that she will lie , manipulate , and use your dcs to get her way .

You need to start educating yourself about this as a priority and so does your husband .

parrishmiller.com/narcissists.html

Yes this is a pissing contest, this is a game of chicken. This is YOU assuming YOUR role of Matriarch of YOUR family

Yes this is it. ^ and this

think of this as negotiation. You have stated your last price, and you know you can't budge or you will come out of this at a loss. You know that until she's prepared to pay the normal human being price of courtesy, respect and kindness that, sadly, there is no point in discussion

This is what we have done. My DC have not been to their PILS since last september, they did not see her over xmas, and there are no plans to see them soon. I have not seen my MIL for several years. I have not been to their house for 6 years.

We are walking to the light.

LET Them huff and puff.

Your position is NON-NEGOTIABLE.

Who da Matriarch? YOU DA MATRIARCH

puffinspresentations.com/?p=370

In my experience , Regardless of what your husband says now , after mil has cried and snotted on him and manipulated him , he will pressure you to appease her. He will unwittingly take the role of flying monkey and agree with her that she is indeed the victim and that you are being unreasonable.

He will likely claim his desire is to keep the peace and stop his mother being upset . This will be a cowardly lie. What he will actually mean is that without you in the mix he is the target instead of you. Your role is already established as the bad guy . If your not IT then someone else is .Same reasoning goes for your flying monkeys .

You husband is weak and ha terrible boundrys . These issues with him will need to be resolved as they will show up in other areas of your marriage.