to be concerned re. what is going on re. immigration and population growth?

[ClarityJane]

So many non-English voices, especially East Europeans, but so many different nationalities en masse it seems have moved here in the last 10-20 years - completely unprecedented historically. And in an already very over-crowded island.

Today I read Labour MP Frank Field say that the population increase due to immigration by 2031, i.e. less than 20 years, will be approximately 10 million and will require building something like seven new Birminghams! Or another London! Based on latest predictions in the papers today anyway.

Did Blair and Mandelson envisage this when they signed up for European Community rules on immigration and refugees? Or did they cynically not care because it meant cheap labour, cheap votes, increased profits (via membership of the European Community).

Did the architects of this policy not consider how it would affect housing, jobs and education and the resulting massive investment needed there, and the over-crowded population we have already.

I believe we have never been consulted or told anything honestly about what the consequences of EC membership was immigration-wise, if indeed there was ever any plan (doesn't seem to be, just a kind of opportunistic carpetbaggers philosophy approach of selling England by the pound).

I feel deceived and hoodwinked really. But are there any more positive thoughts on this? I find it v. depressing.

Its weird if you walk around and never hear an English voice.

Just sayin'.

Just came across this article which sums up some facts quite simply :)

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ben-mitchell/seven-facts-everyone-should-know-about-immigration_b_2336341.html

Maybe Chaz Germany and France do have more refugees. But I bet we have lots more immigrants.

Its weird if you walk around and never hear an English voice

Not in Scotland or Wales.

While I agree with the majority on this thread, throwing out the old 'ignorant twats' label is neither helpful or constructive. It is kneejerk reactions such as this which quash attempted healthy debate.

Tired so not sure my contribution will be invaluable (to put it mildly) but this can't be boiled down as an immigration issue unless you only read the Daily Mail. What is important is that we have overstretched resources that are limping on, in some cases badly (mainly thinking of the NHS and some local authorities with funding cuts, affecting local services) and that is what we need to fix, goodness knows how.

Yes, we have folk moving here from other places. They may move here and end up homeless or reliant upon services for other negative Daily Mail headline reasons, eg drug addiction or what have you, but they'll also be bringing with them knowledge, varied skillsets, education, passion and intelligence. From a species perspective, our gene pool will be significantly improved.

It is not healthy debate to roll out the 'I never hear an English voice' whine either.

There is nothing healthy about that point of view.

sooperdooper

Actually I don't read the Daily Mail - it really fucking annoys me that.

I base my opinions on studies, reputable news sources and the like.

At the moment the NHS is not ready for an influx of immigrants and the government are not preparing it for one either, cutting costs and staff all over the show. We need at least 5000 more midwives to safely care for the people we already have - despite numerous protests and petitions this has been ignored again and again.

The government should be flooding money into housing, the nhs, schools to prepare for what will be next year a steady incoming of people. They have acknowledge that this is going to happen, but done nothing to prepare social resources for it.

The NHS is funded by taxes, if people come here and work, they pay taxes, which pay for the NHS etc

Yes I know, but none of that happens overnight. It will get massively worse for a period of time before they get their arse into gear and give the country what it needs.

Immigration is great for the country, ESPECIALLY for the NHS (since I've mentioned the NHS quite a lot this is relevant) but we need to be able to give them, and our current residents what they need.

And this means roofs over people's heads, not having to rely on foodbanks, being able to access adequate care, etc. All of which we are failing at the moment.

Popcorn anyone?

shrugs you might find it snobby and patronising, I'd just rather read something with a basis in fact

Tired so not sure my contribution will be invaluable (to put it mildly) but this can't be boiled down as an immigration issue unless you only read the Daily Mail. What is important is that we have overstretched resources that are limping on, in some cases badly (mainly thinking of the NHS and some local authorities with funding cuts, affecting local services) and that is what we need to fix, goodness knows how

That's what my point is. Not the number of people coming, but the limited resources that we simply must sort out NOW before it is too little too late.

Clarity without wishing to cause any upset you are talking utter bollocks!

Would you like to ban all other languages? Demand that everyone only speaks English in the UK because you find it weird otherwise?

If you wanted a proper discussion on immigration I would happily take part but your ridiculous opening statement about hearing non-English voices tells me everything I need to know about you, and makes it clear a discussion is not what you want at all!

Well, this isn't going to get us anywhere. This is why you can't have a real discussion in this country.

I'm leaving this thread.

Er, the news report I saw today made it quite clear that the main cause of population growth was people living longer.

Over crowded where I am, which is reflected in the crippling cost if rents, which leads to over crowded houses. Schools are under pressure to add extra classes as there are not enough spaces for the current children so rather than a 60 intake per year it will now be 90!

The problem is that no government has sort to understand the need to actually build some decent f*cking houses to put everyone because the same politicians are the landlords making a fortune out if damp shifty houses and sending their kids to private school.

Was it a whine or an observation. Subjective.

Moreover, your idea of healthy debate need not necessarily be in line with that of people who don't share your point of view.

In 20 years the UK is going to have a huge number of older people, unless we increase the number of working aged people how were we going to look after them?? London might be overcrowded, but the rest of the UK has plenty of room, come on in folks!

People swearing at me now. You can't win an argument by intimidation you know. Idiots.

Clarity please see my post just before yours and you will see the real reason why a real discussion can't be had on this subject.

clarity it could have been a decent debate had you not turned it into a 'them and us' argument with your 'english voices' comment.

Would it make you feel any better if I swore at you in another language?