to be concerned re. what is going on re. immigration and population growth?

[ClarityJane]

So many non-English voices, especially East Europeans, but so many different nationalities en masse it seems have moved here in the last 10-20 years - completely unprecedented historically. And in an already very over-crowded island.

Today I read Labour MP Frank Field say that the population increase due to immigration by 2031, i.e. less than 20 years, will be approximately 10 million and will require building something like seven new Birminghams! Or another London! Based on latest predictions in the papers today anyway.

Did Blair and Mandelson envisage this when they signed up for European Community rules on immigration and refugees? Or did they cynically not care because it meant cheap labour, cheap votes, increased profits (via membership of the European Community).

Did the architects of this policy not consider how it would affect housing, jobs and education and the resulting massive investment needed there, and the over-crowded population we have already.

I believe we have never been consulted or told anything honestly about what the consequences of EC membership was immigration-wise, if indeed there was ever any plan (doesn't seem to be, just a kind of opportunistic carpetbaggers philosophy approach of selling England by the pound).

I feel deceived and hoodwinked really. But are there any more positive thoughts on this? I find it v. depressing.

BIWI

I'd report you...but you're right

Clarity

One insight you need to grasp is that many of us don't see immigration as a negative nor do we blame it for the ills of society. People talk about the NHS being over stretched but it would fall apart if it wasn't for the immigrants working for it.

Maybe Chaz Germany and France do have more refugees. But I bet we have lots more immigrants.

What makes you think this, OP?

but you forgot to mention about all those Immigrants that drain our NHS Resources! (Oh and the twice as many that actually work and contribute for and to the National Health Service

If that was aimed at me, which I'm going to assume it was because I'm one of the few to mention NHS, you're being deliberately obtuse.

I clearly said immigrants help immensely and that we'd fall without their contribution both from work and taxes.

My issue is with the government not allocating resources not people coming here :)

tinmug I'm just waiting for someone to pop up with a "but we are being invaded I tell you. invaded!". You know because mentioning British Colonisation is a thing of the Past.

It really intrigues me to see a left-wing defence (anti-racism) being passionately argued in favour essentially of extreme free-market economics (globalisation). The free movement of labour is a right-wing position: let the market decide where people should live, and the social consequences will sort themselves out in due course. I find it fascinating to see the doctrine of tolerance (whose adherents tend to see themselves as lefties) becoming the main defence of free market liberalism.

It wasn't aimed at you actually Strumpetron

Have my first ever . ( imagine that being said in my lovely non English voice )

Strump

I'm most concerned about these 5 Lithuanian lads you were living with!

I beg your pardon, madam!

Its weird if you walk around and never hear an English voice.

Funny, the English are known as lazy in wanting to learn foreign languages...

We do live in a global world now. Get over it.

But you are not offering anything to back up your "debate" clarity - can you offer some statistics? I honestly can't so i would be more than interested to have the figures explained to me. Please, enlighten me? Who is it exactly that you don't want coming over here? Why don't you want them here? I think people have pointed out that actually we are not overcrowded so maybe there is something else you don't like?

^I'm most concerned about these 5 Lithuanian lads you were living with!

I beg your pardon, madam!^

In different rooms in a share house! I may have snogged one of them though

It was when I was 19, a very skint care assistant with no-where else to live haha.

I was taking the piss about all the things that are usually said when this Debate is raised :)

I'm not goady, just angry, at times.

Honestly, sad angry about whats happened over the last 10-20 years, and in particular the prediction for the future.

The way the Labour Party sold England down the river for EC profits, as I see it. Unless they really did have a bigger vision, in which case, I would like to have been told and maybe consented. They preferred not to have that debate .

I'm not comfortable with how I feel, this resentment. In fact its horrible, hence my original post, hoping for some other vision that might mitigate or enlarge it.

But its sadly not been forthcoming, just a lot of tired assertions and insults, which makes me realise probably the worst.

Glad you think i'm funny. MissPixietrix fancy coming for a walk to Tower Hamlets - might change your mind.

I bet it really gets your goat doesn't it!

OP - you asked for positive takes on this. I've given you some. But you don't seem to want to listen. Why?

I believe you, Strump

Wrt to the English being lazy about learning foreign languages, my SIL speaks her own language (Lithuanian), German and taught herself English when she came here. Her sister did the same. The scrounging bastids, that they are.

I'm always ashamed when I see foreign news reports and they interview teens who have fantastic English, while I can remember a handful of French phrases from school.

And isn't English supposed to be one of the hardest languages to learn?

Why does this topic provoke so much anger? Just curious.

You have nothing to be angry about apart from your own ignorance.

I suggest you educate yourself on what migration contributes and who pays the taxes in Britain.

It's not like people on this thread haven't pointed it out over and over again.

heartbrokenmum Honest!

They all knew 4 languages each. Four!! I learned a bit of German from them, always been fascinated by the language but I've forgotten it now.

The English do seem very lazy when it comes to languages compared to other countries, although I do think it's slowly improving

Clarity
There are quite a few countries in the EU that have more immigrants than the UK - you really need to check your facts.