AIBU to complain about this busdriver? (pushchair related)

[candlelight2012]

Would appreciate some opinions before complaining as I'm unsure whether or not he was correct

There was a mother with two young children, one about 2/3, one about 8/9 months (going by eye) with a buggy in upright position in the buggy spot, and the older child on a seat younger one on her knee.

Bus stopped to change drivers and new driver got on the bus and told the women she had to fold the buggy up and move seats as another buggy was coming on.

The new family, mum dad and baby about 7 months, with downs syndrome got on and waited for the mum to fold the buggy and move.

The mum and passengers were all saying to the bus driver that the new passengers should surely be the ones to fold the buggy as they were coming on second, the driver didn't address anyone apart he mum and started raising his voice and hurrying her to move

This took about 4 mins and the mum was in tears by the end of it.

The buggy space goes to the disabled child unless his parents volunteer to forgo that. None of us know what difficulties there might have been in getting that child out of his buggy. So mum 1 has to vacate the space - fold up buggy or get off bus. All this made worse by lack pf bus drivers communication skills there's no need to shout and themeddling in of passengers who haven't a clue. A buggy with disabled child gets priority - the parents of that ds baby know why they definitely needed it

I've got children of about the same age and tbh after a trying day I could cry if one more thing went wrong. I wouldn't complain though as I think the driver was a bit damned either way; shouldn't have shouted though.

badguider - don't be put of by those kinds of people, my experience has always been positive, I have never had to fold my buggy down and most people are very nice and helpful, never even had so much as a glare. Real life is not always like MN, thank goodness, and not everyone believes that just because that's how they were obliged to do things 10/15/20 years ago, that things haven't changed for the better (except in their minds).

Please - anyone who has been scared off buses because of the MN grouches - get out there! It really isn't like that at all. Don't forget that no-one posts about the perfectly normal, stress-free trips that they have on buses - I could have written about 50, if I'd wanted to!

I think it is worth complaining as the OP said that there was another space for an unfolded buggy (next to some tip-up seats) so one of the buggies could have gone there - but the driver 'didn't allow it'! So the whole situation could have been avoided if the driver hadn't been an idiot.

There's quite a difference of opinion as to whether mum 1 or mum 2 should have been the one to fold - and many of those opinions are quite definite and forthright! So there is apparently no one single, unarguable convention that's accepted by everyone. What a total minefield for anyone less confident, shy, unwell, with limited mobility, depressed or just plain struggling with 2 young children to navigate!

For all those who think nothing of juggling buggy folding and 2 young children on a moving bus and think anyone who does deserves scorn and mock incomprehension - spare a thought for those who don't cope quite so breezily with the logistics of young kids. I was one of those mums and can quite easily imagine myself in tears in the scenario the OP describes. If some of the people who have posted on here were on the same bus, I would probably never have used public transport again!

wingardium, how about sparing a thought for those who have all the above difficulties and a disabled child?

Contrary to popular belief, there is no benevolent local authority who confers extra physical strength, mental resilience and extra coping abilities on those of us who end up with disabled children.

Actually, I think I'll repeat that in bold, because it is pretty important and not generally known.

Contrary to popular belief, there is no benevolent local authority who confers extra physical strength, mental resilience and extra coping abilities on those of us who end up with disabled children.

We are just the same as the rest of you, we have no extra mental or physical resources, we have not been spared any of the usual problems that come with looking after small children. We just have a few extra.

Which may include a child who screams in pain if you try to lift it, who may not be able to travel unsupported on a bus because of pain or bodytone problems, wheelchairs which (unlike buggies) won't fold, bodies which in addition to any disabilities of our own will also be knackered through the strain of caring for our disabled child (I have a bad back and a prolapse from having to carry an 11yo to the bathroom) and the mental exhaustion that comes with always knowing that your child will not be able to cope like other children. Plus constant travelling to and from hospital appointments, physio, counselling, and whatever other specialists your child may require. And finances which are likely to be knackered from the strain of a disabled child.

We do the same work as all of you. We just do more of it. And for much, much longer.

Wingardium - it's not about a convention it's just the rule and it's there because regardless off the difficulties other parents may face (and I appreciate they do) it's just harder with a disability in the mix. So unless the parent of the disabled child forgos their space they get priority. I wish bus drivers did handle this better and am sorry to see a mum reduced to tears but it's not s convention about who gets priority it's a rule that should be followed.

Wingardium it wasn't on a moving bus. The bus was stationary.

My dd has hypotonia which is quite common in children with DS, at a year old she could not support her own head which made holding her on a bus quite difficult. It could be that the 2nd babies pushchair was adapted to help support their disability, this could have caused problems with folding.

My dd is now nearly 5 and I still use a normal buggy when going on the bus because her SN buggy is a nightmare to fold. I'd rather take the judgy looks in the street than argue that her pushchair is effectively a wheelchair on the bus.

YABU.

A disabled child in a buggy needs the buggy space more than non-disabled. That's all there is to it.

And a wheelchair trumps pushchairs. Always. I have a serious disability which makes it hard for me to fold up my pushchair on the bus. If a wheelchair comes along, I get off the bus and walk/wait for the next one. That's all there is to it. If I can do it, then other people can.

The parents with the disabled child have priority, absolutely, and I know that I can't even imagine (though I can try) how relentlessly hard life must be for parents of disabled children.

However, I think the point wingardium was making was, regardless of whether there's a disabled child, or adult in fact, in the equation, that some MNers do have this view that everyone should be able to cope in these situations without turning a hair, and that is unfair and unrealistic (and not very sympathetic either). It sounds, from the OP, that the parents of the disabled child were feeling pretty uncomfortable too, by the driver making mum 1 so very flustered, instead of calming helping her so that everyone could board and get on with their journey. Doubly so, given there was a space that could have been used by either buggy.

A disabled child in a buggy needs the buggy space more than non-disabled an empty buggy. That's all there is to it.

There you go, I corrected it for you.

A disabled child in a buggy is surely entitled to the wheelchair space, I'd have thought.

All in all I think the driver handled the situation very badly. He was probably narked when mother 2 said she was entitled to have priority for the buggy space and he took it out on mother 1. It would have been kinder to offer mother 2 the wheelchair space.

Not a nice man.

Also don't think anyone should be pooh poohed for ending up in tears when got at by bus drivers with 2 kids in tow. Poor woman - disabled children get priority end of- but a bit of sympathy for mums in general would be good too

Unless the 2nd DS babies buggy was some special adapted pram it might not have been immediately obvious to the mum. If it is just a normal pram then you dont start peering into it checking if the baby has some disability so you can instantly know to give up your space. The space is designated for wheelchair users end of. Trying to decide which baby has more or less rights to have the wheelchair space is futile imo. If a pram is already there you dont make a fuss you just wait for the next bus

Bus driver will ask you to move if child is disabled - and then you move. Ideally no one will shout and no one will cry.

But if you are told the child is disabled then you move.

Thank you Westiemama.

Yes,Mrs Oakenshield, I agree that there is no need for bullishness, and it is not unreasonable for Mum 1 to be flustered / find it difficult. People, including the bus driver should have been polite and helpful. Someone could have offered to help her fold the buggy / unload the shopping.

It is bloody difficult using buses with pushchairs. I sympathise. But I suspect it's ten times as hard with a disabled child in the mix. And for someone in a wheelchair, it's bloody difficult every day of their lives, not just until their child is old enough to walk.

Blimey, I cannot think of one time in years and years of relying on public transport when there has been a situation like this. I have never seen a person using a wheelchair turned away because there are too may buggies, or the situation where one pram users needs must trump another leaving another mother to fold their buggy or walk. I have never folded down a buggy if I needed to get a child out.

Busses in my area, and others I have visited, are a convenient way to get around, buggies are loaded with shopping to the point that the child's weight is the only thing stopping it tipping.

If the situation were as many here paint it - where you board the bus, pass your children to the arms of kind strangers whilst you fold your wisely chosen for the occasion buggy with one hand, holding the perfectly packed shopping in the other. Or of course be ready to abandon the whole journey and walk because even when you are actually going somewhere really important, you left plenty time on the off chance....
....If I really had to do that I would have got a 4x4 a long time ago.

Out of interest, hypothetically, if you were to get off the bus with your buggy to allow someone else to board, and decided to catch the next bus, would you have to pay again? Because if so, that might sway some people's actions. If for whatever reason you really can't fold the pushchair and don't have money for the next bus and it's too far to walk, would you really get off?

I've never come across this kind of thing either. If anyone is put off using public transport because of threads like this, please don't be. I'm pretty sure it's very unusual!

My children were small before the days of buggy accessible buses (they were introduced in our area a few months after youngest ds started walking everywhere), but even then I found people only too happy to help me get the buggy, the baby, assorted children and the shopping on board. Really, people usually are kind; these threads highlight a small minority of aberrant behaviour.

crohnically, it depends on the bus company. Some give you a ticket to use on the next one (not sure who, was on another bus thread) but many make it clear in their conditions of carriage that you shouldn't use the bus if you can't fold your pram and if you do and end up having to get off, you don't get a refund or another ticket. I'm not sure how it affects parents with disabilities who genuinely could not fold an umbrella stroller though.

The way it works here if there is no space for another buggy is you either wait for the next bus or fold your buggy.

The woman already on the bus should not have been told to fold her buggy.

But there was another space (I'm still not sure I understand why this wasn't used?), and the second buggy boarding the bus was being used by a disabled person, so had priority.