To be pissed off DP went to a strip club....

[NancyShrew]

When I made it perfectly clear I'd be annoyed about it.

DP doesn't seem to find it an issue and I'm fuming. He wanted to go to a strip club to "see what it's like", I said I wasn't happy and we'd discuss it at a later date.

He went anyway on a works night out last night, but apparently it's fine because it wasn't an enjoyable experience.

Well ok - maybe I am bitter about women using misogynistic language to describe other women. But hey, at least I'm not the one doing it...

Well sadly, you are guilty, along with maybe not accepting that something is solely used as industry specific terminology despite the fact that's exactly what it is...

No, I don't accept misogyny anywhere I see it.

Which shows just how misogynistic the lap dancing industry is.

Sugar - what do you think of the fact that lap dancing clubs in the UK are now licensed as sex establishments?

when all's said and done this is the internet, we can all make up whatever story we want to about our lives, including 'high end lapdancer who dazzles men with her beauty and dancing skills'

I have been intrigued by this thread. I do think that it is somewhat misogynistic in itself to put SugarHut down for being a former lapdancer, just because she has no regrets. It is ironic that people are pulling her up on her attitude regarding prostitutes, but in the same breath are slagging her off for being a legitimate lapdancer. I personally think that they are quite different.

Sugar, you have called these women who do extras whores, which could be deemed as offensive and misogynistic, and even you have clarified that you are not using this word emotively, you might want to think about how that might offend others as it could be deemed as a subjective word. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if someone called you that, yet there are people on this thread (not myself, for the record) who might argue you are/ were because of the 'erotic' and sexualised nature of your past job.

I think other people should also bear in mind that SugarHut did not invent the industry terms 'dirty' and 'clean dancers.' Right or wrong, those are industry terminologies.

Nobody is slagging off Sugar for having been a lapdancer. We are questioning some of her beliefs. That is totally different.

But it seems that no matter what she says, she is getting ripped apart. If I had people repeatedly telling me that I am wrong to enjoy my job and that every aspect of it was shit, then I would take that as a criticism, like what I did wasn't good enough. I feel that SugarHut could have phrased some things differently and come across less defensive/ aggressive, but to be honest I would be a bit irritated too if I was trying to share my personal experiences and everyone was shitting on me.

I want to hear about the bag!!!!

I did say I'd bow out of this when it looked like she was being piled in on, but then she turned on me. But my beef was her particular language describing other women in her industry - I think it's unacceptable.

I also think that trying to claim she's not providing a sexual service is a bit er, wrong - because she was clearly working for a sex entertainment venue. I wasn't criticising her for that - I reserve my criticism for the men that choose to use SEV's, fwiw.

That's her opinion and she's entitled to it Sabrina x

I agree Sabrina. But yes it is the men who think it is okay to buy women who are the problem.

[pokes head in] "But it seems that no matter what she says, she is getting ripped apart." I read the thread really fast but that is my impression too. I think she was more vehement/nastier than she had to be sometimes, but that seemed to be only in response to the posters who seemed (imo.) more invested in trying to verbally take down the industry than to have an actual exchange of thoughts on its subculture or its position in our culture.

Sugar, sorry to wander in and talk about you, I don't mean to be rude.

Anyone interested in an inside look at this industry might like this book www.amazon.com/Strip-City-Strippers-Farewell-Journey/dp/0786886757 I think it is considered a very honest look, written by a strong woman.

I personally have a hard time with strip clubs and would not want to be with someone who would want to go. But the issue of how/whether the women who work there are feminists or are empowered or are exploited is, I think, really complicated.

Nancy I can't believe you bought a $1350 bag!! I'm sort of on the fence as to whether it was the best response wrt. the way you want your DP to think about your relationship and women and sex and power, etc., but ... damn, girl. Props for actually doing it

"I think she was more vehement/nastier than she had to be sometimes"

From the moment she came onto this thread to "strippersplain" the truth to all us stupid women who don't know how the world really is, she was dripping evil poison about other women being ugly whores who were worth less than she was.

It was one of the ugliest displays of misogyny I have ever seen on here, as well as being fascinating from a sociological perspective in showing how utterly warping of a person's psyche it must be to have to regularly service men for money.

Or, maybe she was an insecure and unpleasant person who needs to constantly put other people down to feel good about herself to begin with?

"Clean and dirty are industry words"

No, they're not, they are words the industry (which is based on misogyny) has adopted from the old, old old canon of words used to split women into whores or madonnas and you accept that division Sugar, because you got to be placed in the madonna category so you could sneer at the women in the whore category. It's a self-defence mechanism by women, to place themselves in the madonna category because they know that at any time the people with the real power - the men - divide them out into those categories.

And I hate to break it to you, but the men who buy the sexual services you sold, don't make the distinction - as far as they are concerned, you're all whores, whether you do extra or not. Because madonnas don't work in the sex industry. Just by being there, as far as the skanky men who frequent lap dancing clubs are concerned, you're a whore, whether they're allowed to touch you or not.

Quite often for punters, the thrill, the real hard-on, isn't the fucking or the touching or the watching - it's the handing of the money over - the symbolic feeling that these pathetic wretches have, of owning the women for that short amount of time. Doesn't matter what she does for it - chat, fuck, dance - it's the fact that he's bought that service and she does it for him that gives him the boner.

I find it very telling that you feel the need to lash out at posters who question your version of the sex industry and to use such horrible contemptuous, stigmatising language about the women the hierarchy has placed in the dirty whore category. You know damned well that other people use the same language about you, because we live in a society steeped with misogyny and women desperate to place themselves in the madonna category will always find a group of women beneath them, who they can place in the whore category. Doubtless the "dirty dancers" looked down on brothel whores; the brothel whores can look down on street walkers; the women who look down on you are looked down on by other women who wear different clothes from them; and meanwhile, men rule the world.

Memo to self. Some people are just dumb fucks who selective read to their benefit...accept this Sugar, and stop trying to explain to the narrow minded and intentionally stupid.

Creepy, yes :) To pretty much everything you wrote.

Keatsie, no offence taken, you've taken the time to read things properly and respond in an intelligent way. I'm not being ripped apart, it's like a couple of 5yr olds popping their heads in shouting "you smell!!!" and then feeling very pleased with themselves for such a valid contribution.

And if some of them want to refer to themselves as "stupid women who don't know how the world really is" well who are we to stop them :)

I think a lot of people have no clue about what goes on. Then when they get the insight of a first hand account of the good and bad from someone who lived that life for a decade, they still refuse to accept it, as they don't want to believe that's how it is, it doesn't suit their opinions, so it IS wrong, even if it's fact.

You'll note all of the questions I ask that blow their notions out of the water get ignored. Then like a broken record they bang on about something that's been covered three times already. It's a lack of intelligence, that I won't lose any sleep over :)

Slightly different take on thos but if you got paid £1000 a night and came away with £730, how much of that did you get to keep after tax and national insurance?

Thinking about it this morning, I think one of the worst things was the topless robot dance. In her insistence to share stories that prove she was not selling "just" overtly sexual services, sugarhut has demonstrated something far more disturbing. Basil is right - the men are buying control over a beautiful woman - a woman possibly way out of his league in real life. He can pay cash to get her to strip and dance - a situation where she may well feel she has momentary sexual power over him. Or worse, he can get her to do a silly dance with her boobs out while he 'pisses himself laughing' at her (or with her? really?) - which is verging on humiliation.

Great post Basil, spot on.

But surely it's only humiliating if she's ACTUALLY humiliated.

I'm astonished by posters telling her how she SHOULD feel.

Sugar, the aggression and anger in your posts is making you come across terribly. Maybe you should take a step back and think about what you're posting. Calling people who call you on misogynistic language 'dumb fucks' - really?

Maybe, DropYourSword. But it's the actions of the punters that I was examining here. What motive is there to pay a dancer £100's to do a topless robot dance? For just a 'laugh'?

I think he was demonstrating his power over her. The power he bought.

"Then when they get the insight of a first hand account of the good and bad from someone who lived that life for a decade, they still refuse to accept it"

The person who gave us that insight was Womban, several pages ago.

Nobody argued with her, because she made her point well and without baring her utterly fucked up views of both herself and other women.

You imagine you are giving us insights into the world of lapdancing clubs. But really you are giving us insights into your own character that are both appalling and incredibly compelling.

I think that could be true Sabrina. But to me it all seems about illusions. For him, he had the perception of control over a stripper, so he therefore was buying power. But equally, she felt that she was in control because she would only perform actions she felt were acceptable to her and therefore she felt she was in a position of power because she got paid extremely well to do something that did not degrade or bother her at all.
I reckon it's like anything in life. If you ask two people to describe something (an argument for example) you'll have two very different descriptions based on each person's perception of events. It's not as black and white as some people here are trying to make it IMO.

Noooo.... I can't believe how wrong people get this. He didn't make me do anything. I pick and choose who I wanted to dance for. It sounded like it would be hilarious to do, and it was. The pair of us could barely breathe laughing so hard at times, I had to keep stopping because I was giving myself a stitch from being hysterical. And like I say, the topless was my choice, so my boss thought I was at least making some effort to make the whole debacle something like a normal dance. Yes he has to pay cash for a dance, of course, I would never have danced for free. But sadly, if you can't accept that the pair of us were crying with laughter and quoting Red Dwarf for 45 minutes, and there was nothing more or less to it than that, then it's more of a reflection on you than me. You want it to be sordid, how sad for you.

With the tax and NI....I have no problem answering this...if you could just tell me why it's your business to know...or relevant to this at all?

Drop Your Sword, a welcome voice of reason :)

Womban and I said identical things, me just in a much more no nonsense way. But you just admit you agree with Womban. Hilarious. Well done dear. If you need sugar coated fluffy words to find them acceptable, then good for you. Have you heard of Nethuns?......