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Original poster

To be pissed off DP went to a strip club....

689 replies

NancyShrew · 25/10/2013 11:13

When I made it perfectly clear I'd be annoyed about it.

DP doesn't seem to find it an issue and I'm fuming. He wanted to go to a strip club to "see what it's like", I said I wasn't happy and we'd discuss it at a later date.

He went anyway on a works night out last night, but apparently it's fine because it wasn't an enjoyable experience.

OP posts:
SabrinaMulFUCKERJjones · 28/10/2013 09:56

Begs the question though - why do men want to pay for the 'illusion' of having power over women? What sort of men frequent these lap dancing bars?

It's the 'punter' mindset that Basil refers to. Seeing women as madonnas or whores, something that can be 'bought' - a chat, dance or a fuck - it's all the same. The mindset that women can be bought.

FreudiansSlipper · 28/10/2013 10:00

Sugarhut you may have picked and choosed who you danced for but it is service you give is to please the customer. If you were not a good dancer, they did not like the way you looked you wold not get any customers

As with all sales itis about what the customer wants as they have the power as they are the ones spending their money

SugarHut · 28/10/2013 10:07

I honestly don't know why they did it. I asked myself that all the time. I was £480 just to talk to or dance with for an hour. A hooker was £250. So they weren't doing it for sexual gratification, as I was double the price and they got bugger all.

I often felt like a counsellor...you get to hear a lot of their problems, and maybe they just wanted someone to talk too, and I wasn't as bad as signing themselves up for therapy.

I've given DP dances at home when he's been curious, and his response was "Is that it???? £40 for THAT??"

I think there is definitely a fantasy element, we were like the "forever unobtainable woman" some guys thought ( we made them think ) we couldn't afford to stop dancing and so they would just give us money thinking they were saving us.

I have to say though, there is no type. And I would say 95% of these guys have partners who have no idea they are there. Some are total losers, some are nice guys, old, young, married, single. It's such a mixed bunch.

DownstairsMixUp · 28/10/2013 10:08

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

JoinYourPlayfuckers · 28/10/2013 10:09

"Womban and I said identical things"

No.

You really, really didn't.

SugarHut · 28/10/2013 10:10

Oh we really, really did. You just don't get that. And can't stand being told that you haven't "got it."

HTH.

fanjofarrow · 28/10/2013 10:13

Memo to self. Some people are just dumb fucks who selective read to their benefit...accept this Sugar, and stop trying to explain to the narrow minded and intentionally stupid.

Is there any need for this level of antagonism towards others? I am interested in what you have to say, but you've been rude to others all the way through this thread.

skylerwhite · 28/10/2013 10:14

Sugar, Womban agreed with your categorisation of 'clean' and 'dirty' dancers, but differed from you in your insistence that the 'dirty' dancers were the 'ugly' ones or the ones in 'bad shape', as you so charmingly put it.

LetsFaceTheMusicAndDance · 28/10/2013 10:15

The tax and NI question is only relevant because it's considered to be an 'easy money' job. I'd dispute that it's easy money for all kinds of reasons. You said you took £730 and I'm just curious about how much of that you get to keep.

JoinYourPlayfuckers · 28/10/2013 10:15

No, you didn't.

She didn't call the "dirty" dancers whores.

She didn't say they were ugly and she didn't express the same contempt for them, and need to show off her own supposed superiority, as you.

She talked about those women as though they were humans, and you spoke about them as though they were (repulsive) objects.

Although she felt the need to tell us that she was clever, it was actually redundant, because her intelligence was obvious in what she wrote.

The only sense in which it was the same as what you wrote, is that you were both talking about being strippers.

Everything else was very different.

SugarHut · 28/10/2013 10:19

Your inability to actually interpret what's been written then make up your own version of what has been said, is your problem, not mine.

HTH

SabrinaMulFUCKERJjones · 28/10/2013 10:22

Totally agree, Downstairs. That is exactly how I see it, any man that has the desire to buy sexual services from a woman is not one that I would be in a relationship with. I don't believe that going into a strip club is just something men 'do' - I believe that men who visit these places don't fully see women as their equals - and that attitude must leak out in other ways - in the way he treats partners, female colleagues etc.

festered · 28/10/2013 10:41

I can support that 'clean' and 'dirty' are industry words. It's a thing dancers say. Regular punters often ask for the 'dirty' girls if that's what they are wanting.
I have also been paid a lot of money just to talk.
Strippers are classed as 'sex workers'. Whatever that actually means, we don't 'have sex' but that's what we're classed as.

Lazysuzanne · 28/10/2013 10:56

I think it's very difficult to get to the 'truth'in this kind of thing because of the social stigma the people who work in the clubs have a deeply vested interest in presenting the version of events which makes it ok for them to do the job.

The tenacity with which a lapdancer clings to her position indicates its importance in maintaining her self esteem.

She is bound to maintain that she is the one with the power.

I think its difficult to say who really has the power, we might cite the principle of least interest?
Who has the greater need?
Probably it will vary depending upon the persons and the situation

Lazysuzanne · 28/10/2013 11:18

If I was an exhibitionist who loved taking her clothes off and dancing whilst men watched and became sexually aroused then I could say that lapdancing made me feel empowered.

If the man watching loves to control women and finds that paying them to strip makes him feel that he has degraded them then which of us is right?

Is the woman degraded or empowered?

HeadsDownThumbsUp · 28/10/2013 11:19

'Clean' and 'dirty' may be 'industry' terms, but the way that Sugar described them made it very apparent that she buys into a deeply misogynistic and somewhat narcissistic paradigm.

As I said upthread, I knew that women in the sex industry were stigmatised, but, naively, I did not think that they would be so invested in stigmatising each other.

Agree with Lazy Suzanne that people's perceptions of power relations vary in the same situation. But, all the same, working in that environment must have a massive impact on your views about gender and power.

People often ask whether the men buying dances from strippers have daughters at home. Conversely, I wonder what working as a stripper must do to womens' relationship with their sons.

DropYourSword · 28/10/2013 11:28

lazy I don't think there's a "one size fits all" answer to that. It must be different for each girl.

Take films for example...I've never watched paranormal activity because I'm sure it would scare the absolute shit out of me. Some people would watch it and be terrified. Other people might watch it and be bored stupid. Others again may find it hilarious that anyone could ever be scared by it and might laugh the whole way through. Whose experience is more "valid" or right. Am I wrong for being scared. Would someone stop giggling and start being scared if they were told that actually pant- wettingly-terrified paranoia was the only correct response to the film?

festered · 28/10/2013 11:34

LazySuzanne that's an interesting way of looking at it!
Headsodwnthumbs up, sorry I understand what you mean now.

This probably isn't the best thing to say but I haven''t employed a lot of thought processes into gender and power or degradation.
It's a job, it suits me, allows me to have a lifestyle that suits me. It's fun most of the time.
I guess I am an exhibitionist, although one thing it has done for me is made me a lot more confident. I was a shy, terrified child/teenager, and now I believe in myself a lot more. I guess that's related to the power thing a little.

Lazysuzanne · 28/10/2013 11:34

Evan if it is a problematic job I can see why people do it IF the money is really that good (??)
I'd be tempted if I was younger and had the right sort of personality.
I'm not sure what the right sort of personality is, but I don't think I'd fit in!

JoinYourPlayfuckers · 28/10/2013 11:41

"Would someone stop giggling and start being scared if they were told that actually pant- wettingly-terrified paranoia was the only correct response to the film?"

A person's response to a film can't be meaningfully compared to their perceptions about how much genuine agency they have in their life.

Your perception of how scary a film is can't be wrong, it's a matter that entirely subjective.

Your perception of how much power you have in a given situation can be entirely wrong. It is a matter of fact, not opinion.

Although figuring out what the truth is of the matter can sometimes be hard.

Lazysuzanne · 28/10/2013 11:44

I suppose you could say that because ultimately society is patriarchal then, in the final reckoning, and in a more abstract sense, the male customers have the power.

But that doesn't mean that the women can't find it empowering.

However, I imagine I would be disturbed by knowing that the customers experience was that in paying me they had degraded me.

Or would I just dismiss them as a bunch of dumb fucks and go laughing all the way to the bank?

Seems like I could only keep my self esteem if I viewed the customers (and perhaps my colleagues who chose to provide different services) with contempt?

DropYourSword · 28/10/2013 11:46

So why is a response to a film seen as subjective, but not a strippers experience? I'm not sure I understand how that becomes a matter of fact rather than opinion or perception?
(Genuinely. Not trying to be argumentative and am interested in discussing rationally)

Lazysuzanne · 28/10/2013 11:48

Join, I agree but would also say that power can be a complex, shifting and nuanced thing.

It can also be black and white, eg if a man with a gun is trying to steal my purse he has all the power

festered · 28/10/2013 11:50

I have experienced girls leaving the job because they found it degrading, didn't like the way some men spoke to them, felt as if they were exploiting themselves.

And others who have confided in me that they drink or do drugs at work because they're not comfortable enough to do it sober.

There's others who are always sober at work, and whose self-esteem isn't affected by the job.
(I've never taken drugs, and usually can't drink at work because I have to drive , however if there's the option of a lift home I will take advantage of free booze, it does make the night more interesting)!

Lazysuzanne · 28/10/2013 11:51

It's difficult (I find)to have a rational discussion on this kind of thing because it's so very emotive, I cant figure it out and my feelings and opinions shift all the time!