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AIBU?

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Original poster

Men looking at my 13year old daughter

387 replies

marmitenot · 21/10/2013 12:21

I went out with my 13 yr old dd yesterday and a couple of her friends. My daughter, although very pretty (doesn't get it from me!), is clearly a young teen and yet men (old and young) were leering over her and distinctly 'checking her out'.

The looks they were giving my daughter made me extremely uncomfortable and really cross.

AIBU to expect men to control themselves around children?

OP posts:
TheGhostofAmandaClarke · 23/10/2013 13:11

Indon't understand something

SomethingOnce · 23/10/2013 13:22

Because overall, things are disproportionately massively shit for the world's women, as compared to men, yet this doesn't seem to be of concern for many people, including many, many women.

Josie1974 · 23/10/2013 13:31

This is a tricky one. I think it's natural to look at other people and normal to look at pretty people for a bit longer. Beauty is nice to look at and I tend to look at beautiful people, be they men, women or children. If she is attractive then she does need to realise that people will want to look at her. The flip side is that life is generally easier and more pleasant for attractive people.

Buuuut grown men 'perving" over a child - yes grim and wrong. I think we all know the difference between admiring attractiveness and being grim.

TheGhostofAmandaClarke · 23/10/2013 13:40

Oh yes somethingonce I see. True. Sad

Heartbrokenmum73 · 23/10/2013 13:53

I've been "looked at" nicely. That sort of "looking" involves a big, warm smile and a "Hel-LO!" - it's non-threatening, it's appreciative, it makes you feel like a million bucks. And it doesn't demand any thing of you - it just wants you to know you're admired

Every time someone comments like this my heart sinks a little. Let's be clear about this - this is NOT 'nice'. This is not 'flattery', whether delivered with a smile or not. This is unasked for and unwanted by the majority - as evidenced by this thread (and others that I've read). For every woman who enjoys this attention there are 10 who don't. And every time someone says this kind of attention is fine it undermines those who don't like it.

This is never ok. As long as someone says they don't mind its, the pricks who do it think WE ALL don't mind it. Yes, the men being lecherous/gropey/pervy are 100% at fault here. But comments like don't help.

youretoastmildred · 23/10/2013 14:12

somethingonce, I agree with you, and I am a feminist. But I often see feminist arguments presented on here by people saying "there are many men not like this! Avoid them!" - like you can. There are not that many men not like that. And they don't seem to have much influence relative to the others, tbh. (in my experience)

SPsTombRaidingWithCliff · 23/10/2013 14:23

I dont see the issue with a smile and a hello.

HexU · 23/10/2013 14:31

I'm not great with attention but I'd be hard pressed to get offended with a smile and a hello - I'd assume it was random bod being polite or friendly.

Heartbrokenmum73 · 23/10/2013 14:46

To me, whether there's a smile or not, it's up there with that cheery 'smile, love, it might never happen' bollocks. It's un-asked for and some people find it intimidating, smile or not.

And as for 'Hel-Lo' - creepy, in a Leslie Phillips, 'ding-dong', pervy old man way . Smile and friendly does not necessarily equate 'nice'. I give you Ted Bundy as an (extremely extreme!) example.

Old bloke did that at DD once when she was with DM. DM said it was delivered in a really lecherous way - DD was 9.

Still ok?

TheGhostofAmandaClarke · 23/10/2013 15:00

I think context is everything.
A smile is nice. If someone looks appreciatively at me and smiles, in a friendly (not leery) way, then there's a degree of engagement isn't there?
It's one person looking at another person and maybe thinking "mm nice" and then sort of checking back with that person "does she like me?" "is she interested". That's quite different from just looking a girl/ woman up and down without acknowledging them as a person.
The first is the polite manifestation of human attraction and the second comes from objectification.
Then there's the wider issue that there's no level playing field for men and women. Men have much more "currency" than their looks. It's easier to avoid oppression if you can be considered valuable in more than one area.
They can be "attractive" by being clever, strong, minted, beautiful, funny.... Females have fewer currency options. We are considered desirable if we are young, slim, physically attractive. So there are fewer options for women and it's easier to keep us "in our place"
At least, that's my view.

Heartbrokenmum73 · 23/10/2013 15:06

I wouldn't care if it was delivered with a smile or not. Unless I'm actively seeking out the sexual approval of a stranger, I don't want it. And when I say actively, I mean by making eye contact, doing all that flirty shit (which I'm crap at Grin). I don't want someone giving me 'hel-LO' and a big smile, thanks. Fuck.off.strange.bloke.

It's not ok for ANY man to simply assume that he can direct these things at a stranger - how does he know how she's feeling inside? Just because some women like it, it doesn't mean we all do.

HexU · 23/10/2013 15:09

I'm anti - leaching at any one.

But a smile and hello - well that's different IMO though obviously it can be one in a lecherous way which would be leaching then not just a smile and hello.

The whole random smile thing used to happen to me a lot as well - hated that. My usual reaction was to unthinkingly smile as I was nervous - though I never felt threaten just unsure.

I always thought the people, mainly men, were being weird or friendly though I do remember a few responses to my instant smile - being told I was beautiful few times which was nice even though half time I was unsure if they were taking the piss and on one occasion a friendly hug which took me back.

Perhaps I was/am very naive - I didn't find that threatening perhaps because I felt they were responding to me as a person. Though I'm not sure I'd be happy for random men to do that to my DC though it didn't happen when I was very young teenager.

TheGhostofAmandaClarke · 23/10/2013 15:11

But how do ppl know whether you're in the mood for it, as it were?

curlew · 23/10/2013 15:14

"I wouldn't care if it was delivered with a smile or not. Unless I'm actively seeking out the sexual approval of a stranger, I don't want it........ I don't want someone giving me 'hel-LO' and a big smile, thanks. Fuck.off.strange.bloke."

Absolutely!!!!!!

Doctorbrownbear · 23/10/2013 15:21

Any decent man would look away but unfortunatley there are plenty of pervs out there who think it's acceptable. I can remember getting beeped at doing my paper round when I was 13. I look back now and think what sort of man thinks that's OK?

HexU · 23/10/2013 15:38

The whole random smile thing

I meant being asked/told to smile thing by total strangers, which I wasn't huge fan of finding it odd, - not people just smiling and saying hello.

TheGhostofAmandaClarke · 23/10/2013 16:17

Being told to smile by a stranger is extremely irritating.

LessMissAbs · 23/10/2013 17:12

Why on earth would you want random strange men to smile and say hello to you? And tbh if they do that, instead of protecting your privacy, they are likely to be strange or after something else.

I get far too much unwanted male attention. It doesn't make me feel good about myself, it annoys me. I'm not a sex worker, I dont work in the media - what do I get out of being nice to random men, beyond risking encouraging the one that just might be a nutter? It doesn't benefit me in any way as I have zero interest in flirting with strangers. Id much rather be ignored.

ColderThanAWitchsTitty · 23/10/2013 17:26

If it is definitely NOT sexual can someone confirm that their 13 and 14 year old beautiful sons have just as many leers and comments from strange men?

And can the men on the thread saying looking at people is natural that they also suffered this as young teenagers?

Has a man EVER been told "smile it might never happen" by another man?

Because it kind of sounds like bull to me. Happy to be proved wrong though.

ColderThanAWitchsTitty · 23/10/2013 17:29

I am not an attractive woman. I have as a youngster had unwanted attention from older men it is a power thing. I have also had really nasty things commented on my appearance, men are taught that it is OK to look and Ok to comment. It is not Ok, leering at someone for being"beautiful" or for being "not worth it" are two side of the same really nasty misogynistic coin

trish5000 · 23/10/2013 17:44

I agree with MrsLion. Looking and leering are two different things.

TheGhostofAmandaClarke · 23/10/2013 17:50

Very good points here Colderthanawitchestitty

BlingBang · 23/10/2013 18:31

I'm confused with this smile and hello thing. What are we talking about here, does no one when walking along the street or the park ever smile at someone I passing, smile and say hello or morning? Think that's quite normal, especially when both are on their own.

Heartbrokenmum73 · 23/10/2013 18:39

I've been "looked at" nicely. That sort of "looking" involves a big, warm smile and a "Hel-LO!" - it's non-threatening, it's appreciative, it makes you feel like a million bucks. And it doesn't demand any thing of you - it just wants you to know you're admired

This is what we're talking about.

Heartbrokenmum73 · 23/10/2013 18:41

Posted too soon.

I don't need someone random bloke 'admiring' me, thanks. It's creepy and patronising. I'm not eye candy and I have no idea what's behind this seemingly-innocent 'nice' looking.

Innocuous it may be, but I don't know that, so I don't want it.