To be pretty uncomfortable with home circumcision

[EastofEast]

We get on very well with our neighbours and are pretty close but I was a bit shocked today, one of those moments where you find you really have opposing views on something quite fundamental.

Neighbour has a (gorgeous) two week old boy. She knocked on the door earlier to return my car keys (went to get a new battery for hers in my car) and I mentioned her new ds was unsettled for the first time ever; joking maybe he wasn't the perfect baby after all. My baby is demanding much more vocal about her needs. She said it was because he was circumcised today. I must have looked a little put off, I don't agree with it at all, as she then said 'oh he's doing really well. We were lucky the doctor came to house to do this one, all the others had to go to a clinic'. I was stunned, I'm amazed you're allowed to do such a thing at home in such an unregulated way. Frankly I wouldn't allow any deliberate harm to come to a child that wasn't medically necessary, but considering some people do do it I thought the rules would be tighter. We're both from (different) backgrounds which circumcise, although I refused to change my son, and I knew she'd do it after a related chat about whether fgm was that bad over a coffee one day but it's still upset me a bit the way it's done. The poor little thing is grumpy with loads of adults around to celebrate the event passing him round and round at 8.30pm.

I know the circumcision vs no circumcision has been done already, and not everyone shares my strong views, but at home? Should this be ok? I can't think of other similar procedures happening in a similar environment.

How common is it in the UK for boys to be circumcised for non religious/cultural/medical reasons? It's just that I recently had a conversation with a friend who's brother is circumcised (just on their mother's preference - they're a British CofE family) and my friend is dead set on any future sons of hers being done too. Just because she thinks it's 'cleaner' and 'looks nicer'.

I'm pregnant and she was asking me if I would have my baby circumcised, and I was slightly horrified at the suggestion. I think she's nuts - I can't imagine chopping bits off my son's penis!

Good for you FoxMulder !

Male circumcision cuts the incidence of STIs and HIV. It became common practice in the USA afterWWI for that reason.

HIV was not around then, or actually it might have been but was not recognised or understood and was very rare.

The way HIV 'hides' means the foreskin does not have its usual role in cutting the incidence of STIs.

By that I mean a foreskin actually offers protection against most STIs but the one where it does not is HIV.

So what ever the reason for increased circumcision in the USA post WWI it was not to cut STIs, or if it was, there was no evidence to base it on.

I recently went to a brit in a 5* hotel. 200 guests dressed as for a wedding reception, circumcision performed on a stage in front of all of us, music and big sit down meal afterwards.

At home circumcision is for amateurs .

OP - YABU. None of your business.

We did it at home (mohel was consultant at local hospital) so had about 100 people round. We had some food and drink, etc, but not a sit-down do. That said, we've been to very pleasant britot in synagogues, with receptions afterwards....

Cote

I'm just describing what I have seen, to say that these boys don't seem in terrible pain (without anesthetics, too) and enjoy the party in their name.

Is what you said, although I missed the bit about no anaesthetic - which I actually don't believe.

I do like the fact that the "none of your business" brigade have all had little bits of their 8 day old sons sliced off...

And actually, having a bit of a piss up afterwards just adds to the nastiness of it.

And as the saying goes, a lot of my friends are Jewish. Doesn't make me any less disgusted with this medieval practice.

Thanks, GML - good to know you have Jewish friends. Perhaps you could report them to Social Services, and see if you're taken seriously. The brit dates to well before medieval times, or course.

As for the point about the "none of your business" brigade, I'm quite a laisser faire person. I have the same view about ear piercing, which I haven't done to any of my DC's and abortion, which I haven't had.

Gwen - You're wrong. I'm in the "none of your business" brigade and my DS is uncircumcised.

It's ok that you didn't get this. I only said it three times on this thread.

Wilson - You can believe whatever tickles your fancy. I know for a fact that anesthetics we're not used for circumcisions at the time.

Your understanding of circumcision is limited to pathological cases with an underlying physiological problem. You need to consider the possibility that "normal" circumcision of a healthy penis might be a far less drastic (and less painful) affair.

Oh and the question of "what site of person goes to a circumcision party", I guess Bonsoir can answer if you would like to ask her.

Bonsoir - Worra has questions about your (lack of) humanity

"What SORT of person...", rather.

In my case, the sort of person whose DP is Jewish and has a lot of close family friends (going back generations) who have a wide and varied approach to religious ritual and tradition and respect the diversity of practice. We are not going to snub old friends and hurt feelings - nor am I going to take a front row seat!

I have no questions at all about anyone's lack of humanity thank you.

My mind is firmly made up on that score after reading this...

"I have seen several 6-8 year old boys get circumcised (yes, in front of everyone) and they didn't seem terribly bothered by it. Of course there must be some pain, but they seemed easily distracted with the clown, the party around them etc."

Thanks for your contribution, WoEND - I'd never thought of that! Clearly I was so brainwashed that none of these issues had occurred to me, but the moment I saw your post I resolved never again to have a brit for any future sons, nor to go to any future family or community britot....

As another poster said, I don't know why this thread, which was nothing to do with Jews, has suddenly become yet another "disgusting, outrageous" thread....

You need to consider the possibility that "normal" circumcision of a healthy penis might be a far less drastic (and less painful) affair.

I don't need to consider anything. If I wished to consider your assertion I'd like to see some proof, rather than your assumptions.

My friend told me that the Dr who circumcised one of her 3 sons made a right hash of it (the other 2 were ok thankfully). The op was performed in hospital (abroad). Things can and do go wrong. I can't imagine taking that unnecessary risk with a small baby. As for performing the operation in front of loads of people and then having a party to celebrate having your penis mutilated - I think it is time things moved on...

Haven't RTFT, don't need to.

If I felt like brutally cutting off a part of one of my child's penises, I'd probably do it at home so people wouldn't see the pain he was in and I could claim others were bigots if they thought what I had done was child abuse. If they didn't see the actual procedure, they're far less likely to be openly horrified and I can maintain my archaic, cruel practice without anyone daring to judge me.

Plus, who wants to party over a baby's suffering in a hospital? You can put decorations up at home!

Special Agent - If you had a brit at home, it would be in front of people, who would and do see what's going on. In hospital it's much more likely to be in private, so I don't think your post is right.

Incidentally, if your child has more than one penis, it's a matter for more drastic surgery!

I have two sons, excuse my poor grammar.

OP asked whether it's okay at home, my view is why not? Much easier to hide an infant screaming in pain.

I'm sure if you nipped down the doctors for your smear tests and the doctor snipped bits off you while he was down there you'd be very upset, no? Because you didn't consent. Well neither do these baby boys.

Exactly this ^^