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Original poster

To be pretty uncomfortable with home circumcision

578 replies

EastofEast · 20/10/2013 20:31

We get on very well with our neighbours and are pretty close but I was a bit shocked today, one of those moments where you find you really have opposing views on something quite fundamental.

Neighbour has a (gorgeous) two week old boy. She knocked on the door earlier to return my car keys (went to get a new battery for hers in my car) and I mentioned her new ds was unsettled for the first time ever; joking maybe he wasn't the perfect baby after all. My baby is demanding much more vocal about her needs. She said it was because he was circumcised today. I must have looked a little put off, I don't agree with it at all, as she then said 'oh he's doing really well. We were lucky the doctor came to house to do this one, all the others had to go to a clinic'. I was stunned, I'm amazed you're allowed to do such a thing at home in such an unregulated way. Frankly I wouldn't allow any deliberate harm to come to a child that wasn't medically necessary, but considering some people do do it I thought the rules would be tighter. We're both from (different) backgrounds which circumcise, although I refused to change my son, and I knew she'd do it after a related chat about whether fgm was that bad over a coffee one day but it's still upset me a bit the way it's done. The poor little thing is grumpy with loads of adults around to celebrate the event passing him round and round at 8.30pm.

I know the circumcision vs no circumcision has been done already, and not everyone shares my strong views, but at home? Should this be ok? I can't think of other similar procedures happening in a similar environment.

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 20/10/2013 23:32

I was told that partners of circumsised men were very unlikely to get cervical cancer. But don't know if that is actually medically proven by any kind of statistics. I must say I don't like the idea but I can't see it being made illegal any time in the forseeable future.

MistressIggi · 20/10/2013 23:32

Cote are you comparing the Christian belief in the Incarnation and redemptive sacrifice (to use Christain terminology) of Jesus' death to a divine command to remove foreskins? You really think they are of equal weight or make equal sense/nonsense?
Hmm

SirChenjin · 20/10/2013 23:38

Just because something belongs to another culture doesn't mean it shouldn't be challenged, or that it has any place in our society. Far too much is excused under the guise of it being carried out on cultural/religious grounds.

SirChenjin · 20/10/2013 23:39

Because FGM is 'cultural' too, don't forget...is that none of our business too? Hmm

curlew · 20/10/2013 23:47

It doesn't actually matter whether it hurts or not. It's just a case of unnecessary surgery being performed on a person who can't give consent. Which is always wrong. To put it mildly.

FortyDoorsToNowhere · 20/10/2013 23:53

Most healthcare professionals maintain that the potential benefits of circumcision are not strong enough to justify routine childhood circumcision. Critics of circumcision argue that it has disadvantages, such as:
Reduced sensitivity – an uncircumcised penis is more sensitive than a circumcised penis, meaning that circumcised men may experience less pleasure during sex.
Potential complications of circumcision – these include excessive bleeding and post-operative infection, and outweigh any potential benefits.
Critics have also argued that routinely circumcising baby boys on medical grounds violates the principle of consent to treatment. They say that circumcision should only be performed when a boy is old enough to make an informed decision about whether he wishes to be circumcised.

Copied from the NHS website

HappyHalloweenMollyHooper · 21/10/2013 00:04

HPV causes cervical cancer, not foreskins.

Thankfully there are now much simpler ways of preventing this this than circumcision.

WilsonFrickett · 21/10/2013 00:58

Cote as the mother of a child who had two medical circumcisions when he was five (the first was a minor one which did not work) can I just say utter bollocks to your arguement. It hurts a lot. Perhaps not at the moment of circumcision when the anaesthetic is working, but it hurts like fuck afterwards.

CoteDAzur · 21/10/2013 06:41

Perhaps the medical condition made the circumcisions more difficult and painful than usual.

I have no religion and my DS is not circumcised, as I said. Still, most men I know are circumcised (and I have "road tested" the private parts of several) and are perfectly fine about it. And thee is the health benefit.

So I have to say I can't get as excited about it as some of you clutching their pearls with anguish on here.

FortyDoorsToNowhere · 21/10/2013 08:01

I'm not clutching at pearls, I have a DS and wouldn't put him through pain and risk for my own satisfaction.
He is perfect the way he was born.

Twattyzombiebollocks · 21/10/2013 08:02

I don't agree with circumcision for non medical reasons, however to make it illegal would be a very unwise move I think, as rather like abortion, people will still perform this procedure, but rather than it being performed in a suitable environment by qualified people it will be performed by anyone willing to flaunt the law in whatever premesis they can get away with it without being caught.
If it has to be done (and you won't stop hundreds of years of tradition and culture relating to religion just by telling everyone its barbaric and making it illegal) then let it be done by qualified and regulated doctors who are answerable to governing bodies, and in an environment suitable for the procedure.

candycoatedwaterdrops · 21/10/2013 08:21

Interestingly, there is a link between circumcision and lower rates of cervical cancer especially in Jewish women. There is plenty of information about this on the internet.

Btw, I am not advocating circumcision, just saying that a PP is not quite right.

curlew · 21/10/2013 08:36

"Interestingly, there is a link between circumcision and lower rates of cervical cancer especially in Jewish women. There is plenty of information about this on the internet. "

This research has been called into question- observing Jewish women are likely to have a lower rate of cervical cancer because they are likely to have had fewer sexual partners than average.

curlew · 21/10/2013 08:39

"So I have to say I can't get as excited about it as some of you clutching their pearls with anguish on here."

Is there a name for this sort of ridiculous argument? Not quite a straw man......

It's common on here as an attempt to shut down debate- you object to something in a measured and sensible way and before you know it you're "hysterical" or "clutching at pearls with anguish" Just intellectually lazy.

WorraLiberty · 21/10/2013 08:59

I have seen several 6-8 year old boys get circumcised (yes, in front of everyone) and they didn't seem terribly bothered by it. Of course there must be some pain, but they seemed easily distracted with the clown, the party around them etc.

How on earth is that not considered sick abuse in this day and age?

It's 2013 and adults are quite legally standing around watching little boys having their foreskin cut from their penis?!?

It takes a lot to shock me, but I have to say the thought of this going on has made me sick to my stomach.

CoteDAzur · 21/10/2013 09:17

This was about 30-35 years ago, if that makes you feel better. Obviously in another land where it wasn't considered "sick". But don't let that distract from your "my morals are bestest and others are all savages" line Smile

IndigoTea · 21/10/2013 09:21

Tongue tie is cut at home, I don't see how this is any different.

Writerwannabe83 · 21/10/2013 09:25

Because release of tongue tie is necessary??

curlew · 21/10/2013 09:29

"But don't let that distract from your "my morals are bestest and others are all savages" line "

Ooh look, there you go again with whatever that sort of argument is called!

CoteDAzur · 21/10/2013 09:30

Why don't you find out "what it's called" and let us all know?

CoteDAzur · 21/10/2013 09:32

In case it's not clear (although I've said it twice already), I'm not arguing for circumcision since my DS isn't circumcised, either.

WorraLiberty · 21/10/2013 09:38

But don't let that distract from your "my morals are bestest and others are all savages" line

Oh come on really?

Anyone with just a hint of humanity would find adults standing round, celebrating 6-8yr old children having bits sliced from their bodies immoral.

I can't see why anyone would think that's ok, whether they're arguing for circumcision or not.

CoteDAzur · 21/10/2013 09:47

I understand where you are coming from but you are wrong to assume that nobody in my extended family has "a hint of humanity".

What is "normal" varies widely depending on the society you live in. You are wrong to assume that you hold the secret to what "humanity" is.

WilsonFrickett · 21/10/2013 09:48

So you say circumcision on older boys doesn't hurt.
I tell you you are incorrect, having held a sobbing child twice as he 'wee'd nails' and dealt with wound care.

And you're response is to say I'm a pearl clutcher? OK then. Whatever.

CoteDAzur · 21/10/2013 09:59

Where have I said "it doesn't hurt"? Hmm