To not understand why teachers should object to performance related pay?

[Dolcelatte]

After all, it happens in most other sectors, so why should teachers be any different. I am not trying to be controversial and there will undoubtedly be others with a better understanding of the issues. However, I don't understand the objections in principle. Why shouldn't remuneration be dependent upon performance?

That's why I hate VA.
The national figures would tell you that fewer students with a starting point of an average KS2 level 3 will make three levels of progress than students with a starting point of level 5. So if you teach a top set, you might reasonably expect more students to reach their targets than someone teaching a lower set. Each student has a target, based on levels of progress, or FFT, or whatever. But the teacher also has a target which is based on their group. You can't, I think, compare VA with different sets with real validity.

Ah, so not their students. I get it.

I still think that for individual teachers, exam results can be used as at least part of a measure of quality of teaching. As long as it is done sensibly. Which it often isn't, and won't be if left up to individual schools and headteachers/governors. I'm pretty sure it isn't in chibi's school, for example...

we use FFT data to set targets. or rather, targets for my students are given to me, and they are FFT+a mystery amount.

i can move these targets upwards ( impossible in most cases, most are A*) but can only move targets down for one student if i move another up by the same amount

so student 1 with target A can go to a B if i find two students targeted A to move up to A, or a B target student to go up to A*

my students do reach their targets, nearly always, but i never get positive VA. and again, there is no evidence that their success is down to anything i did. we have been told that ofsted assume that good results are due to highly motivated studenta/tutoring/both, and not necessarily the teacher

is it not like that everywhere?

Blimmin feck chibi, I sincerely hope not

oh. well that's interesting then

What and where do you teach that most of your students have a target of an A? And get* it?!!

My year 11 group have a KS2 levels of between 3-4. So their targets are between D and B (20 points progress). If all of them met their targets, I would absolutely smash my own target! They won't all meet their targets in fact, but I very much hope enough of them will for my results to compare favourably with the results for students with the same starting positions nationally. That's what my PM will be based on.

Well, actually, as a line manager, my PM is based on results for the whole of my departments' results, but it is what I will look for when reviewing other teachers.

i teach in a selective school. i teach a core subject. since i joined, our numbers at A level have trebled. my students get great results

i feel like i have one foot in a grave, and i am absolutely dreading tomorrow. the kids are great, i will have someone wanting something else and i have nothing left to give.

Chibi. So everyone's target is A* then, surely some pupils are B pupils.

no. everyone's target is A or A. just over half of these are A

Sorry Chibi. At least though you don't face being sworn at or being threatened by parents because you gave their child a detention.

yes it could certainly be worse. i know i have it easy, which makes me feel worse i guess

Chibi. Are the targets actually possible, unless you teach in one of the top
5 grammar schools in the country. I was looking at statistics and even most grammar schools achieve less than 50% A*A grades at Gcse across
the board.

those are my targets. i had 0 VA with my GCSE classes last year. who knows what will happen this year. at best i will achieve, more likely fail.

we have been promised that missing our targets will not make us go down the pay scale, but they have hinted at capability so who knows

is it not like that everywhere?, in fairness to chibi, the last two schools I have worked in used FFT in this way to judge appraisals and progress. And yes, the targets are often the same. For example, my current Year 10 GCSE group have targets of 7 A*s and 12 As. I have to achieve those in the current examination climate in order to progress up the pay scale (and that is just one class). My last school was selective, this one is not.
FFT is based on largely made up data (from the mouth of the FFT representative on an inset a couple of years ago) and yet, SLT in a lot of schools are using it blindly. However, I am not shocked that a lot of people do not know this. it is this use of inaccurate data that I do not feel that PRP will be applied fairly.
soul2000, I had a parent swear at me for putting their DC in detention for defiance in my last, leafy Kent Grammar school. Selectives are not immune to all that!

Our targets are similar. Non selective school and some intake areas are quite low in terms of support for education. Seems very typical to me. Many children find their targets intimidating too out of interest.

chibi
Hand in your notice and come and teach in a nice leafy comp. You'll get a bit of hassle but a million times more job satisfaction.
Blissx
When I was a governor on the stats committee I used to go up the wall trying to explain to the head that all variances that were less than one standard deviation were down to cohort rather than anything they had done.
Serves me right for having Statistics A level I guess

Blissx. What constitutes defiance? When i mentioned swearing i was referring to the pupil not the parent. Defiance can be a quality in people.

Chibi. i suggest they can bully you because they believe that teachers are
forming a queue to teach there.

Chilbi Is your schools head, European by any chance ?

Sorry, soul2000 - I thought you meant the parent - my mistake! (Although have had grammar school pupils swear at me )