To not understand why teachers should object to performance related pay?

[Dolcelatte]

After all, it happens in most other sectors, so why should teachers be any different. I am not trying to be controversial and there will undoubtedly be others with a better understanding of the issues. However, I don't understand the objections in principle. Why shouldn't remuneration be dependent upon performance?

It's an assessment of need noble. I would expect as part of this a functional analysis would be conducted by a behavioural consultant and then a displacement strategy developed and training delivered on how to support this.

I want to know what this magic method for dealing with anger management problems instantly is. Google isn't very forthcoming.

'If they were a danger to other children in the class I would request a statutory assessment of their needs for support to ensure that they never acted in a way that would get them excluded from school. and if your request was denied, then what?'

The LA can't deny a request that fulfilled the legal criteria. They'd be breaking the law.

Starlight this kid was assessed, counselled, supported, offered time out cards etc.

But when another kid called his mum a moose, that all went out the window.

And you would deny the professionals their pay rise because of that.

Because, of course, the professionals can't deal with the real root cause of this kid's anger, and that is the appalling home situation.

Deny them a pay rise.

Starlight LAs break the law all the time. How would you make them obey it?

'But when another kid called his mum a moose, that all went out the window. And you would deny the professionals their pay rise because of that.'

I most certainly would because their intervention was of extremely poor quality and ineffective.

To do otherwise blames the failed intervention on the vulnerable child.

starlight

all that gets them is assessed. it doesn't solve any of the problems.

Talk I might even want to kiss you right now, but I have had 3 glasses of wine.

I'm really bemused by your fixation with 'blame' and 'fault', Starlight.

No, starlight, it is not to blame the child.

You keep acting like it is either the teacher or the child to blame. Sometimes it's neither.

Boney An assessment is the identification of need. There follows provision to meet need.

Talk, I have lived your reality. I know about what I speak of.

Nah skylar, starlight has had 3 glasses of wine. Explains a lot. Are you going to answer noblegiraffe's question, starlight, which they have now asked many times?

"I most certainly would because their intervention was of extremely poor quality and ineffective."

So is it the teacher that loses money as it was their class?
Is it the TA that loses money as they where 1-2-1 support?
OR is it the person that wrote the intervention in the first place who loses the money?

If teachers are going to get performance related pay then would people want docters to have performance related pay - say they could take the patients most likely to die of an unhealthy lifestyle and if they keep them alive for an extra year each they get extra pay

It would be just as absurd

Starlight

So back to noble's question how do you stop the child from lashing out?

Skyler. It is a teachers job to teach all children in his/her class. If the child does not learn, the teacher has not done a very good job of teaching.

There can be reasons, and those reasons can be challenging but the child is just a child and most likely if they have SEN a vulnerable one at that. The teacher is paid to do a job. They are an adult. They must take responsibility or else the child will fail.

ivykaty would that mean that every time the doctor prescribes the wrong medicine they wouldn't get a pay rise?

I have lived your reality
You what ?

Please answer the question.
Local Authories break the law every day over SEN provision of all kinds.
What do you propose to enforce the law?

Or do you blame the teachers for not making the LA obey the law?

I have replied that that now a number of times. See post Sun 20-Oct-13 20:21:55 for the specifics.

I have replied that that now a number of times. See post Sun 20-Oct-13 20:21:55 for the specifics.

Boney, if the teacher had recognised that the support a child required is outside of that normally provided by the school then they have done their job.

If the person they have referred the child too is unable to do their job adequately then their pay should affect their performance.

It's an assessment of need noble. I would expect as part of this a functional analysis would be conducted by a behavioural consultant and then a displacement strategy developed and training delivered on how to support this.
Assessing a need is not the same as meeting it.

Please answer the question.
Local Authories break the law every day over SEN provision of all kinds.
What do you propose to enforce the law?
Or do you blame the teachers for not making the LA obey the law?