To not understand why teachers should object to performance related pay?

[Dolcelatte]

After all, it happens in most other sectors, so why should teachers be any different. I am not trying to be controversial and there will undoubtedly be others with a better understanding of the issues. However, I don't understand the objections in principle. Why shouldn't remuneration be dependent upon performance?

starlight

That is not what you posted, you are changing the details to match your argument.
You said that schools are consulted, not the teachers, you are now jumping over that and changing the goalposts.

Are you a fan of gove?

Oh sorry post error I meant the two children in same class year group. Pressure point is that I have given a low number and there will be more young people with complex needs as well. Btw I don't use phrase Special Needs generally. So I used complex needs which says it better for me

Starlight, I'm still waiting for you to tell me how to meet the needs of my kid with anger management issues caused by an appalling homelife in a way that would instantly stop him punching anyone who pissed him off.

Because you've worked with a kid who did stop punching people, so you're the expert.

I don't understand Boney. Are schools not made up of teachers?

Brilliant! I was waiting for Dominic Cumming to be mentioned. Genetics. Heck how are we going to factor that into PRP. I don't agree with him by the way but he is a powerful force in the political arena.

Starlight, no, schools are not simply made up of teachers, but teachers and LSAs and support staff, counsellors, pastoral leaders, and a school nurse. A huge team.

Noble, I've told you how to get help with your problem. I don't have the specifics of the case and I am not a behavioural consultant. Get a statutory assessment, get a behavioural consultant in, read his/her advice and attend their training.

My Ofsted suggestion was to focus on the teacher rather than the ability or otherwise of the pupils. The SEN teachers and good mainstream ones tend to teach in a similar style anyway I've found. Good classroom routines, rewards and sanctions, clear expectations, no shouting...

I don't understand why it needs to be anymore evidenced based then it is. All the early posts were from teachers claiming the evidence (ie results) wasn't a good indication of their teaching.

Anyway it won't happen.

"starlight"
reposted from up thread
"I have never known a teacher be asked their opinion on implementing SEN provision and I know of no teachers that have. The consultation is done by the SEN/Inclusion (whatever they want to call it) department and ratified by the HT."

So you're telling me that the LA consults with a TA over the provision in the statement?

Ahh, more sweeping generalisations, starlight that infers a one-size-fits-all and all parents are like you. You are entitled to your opinion, but you must realise it is just that. It is not fact.

John Hattie in his evidenced based research claims that teachers effect can account for 30%. Can't remember what he stated for effect of students own systems but it was high. Shall we pro rata PRP

starlight, you have claimed that if only I got the right help, the problem would be instantly solved.

But you won't say what the right help is, merely claimed that it is out there.

I call bollocks.

As a teacher who has a child undergoing statutory assessment why on earth don't you ask for input into the process?

noble Don't feed the troll.

notthefirst

Ofsted are now focusing on child led learning and progression, less on teaching.

I know of a lot of help. How can you expect me to diagnose the needs of a child and state the provision on a thread on the internet? The child needs a statutory assessment from multi-agencies who will assess and make recommendations.

You want a random and unqualified person from the internet to address the complex needs of a teenager with anger management issues? Are you for real?

Access support from the proper channels. It is there. It can help, but you need to fill in the paperwork.

My Ofsted suggestion was to focus on the teacher. Funny, as the current OFSTED focus is not on the teaching but on the learning and they want to see the teacher intervene as little as possible. But hey, OFSTED will change their mind again in the new year as they always do, to please the DofE

It was 50 percent from student self.

3.5% would be very low. I have to say that Secondary I linked to is a leafy suburb secondary - 4% deprivation.

You're right, talkin bullshit and teacher-bashing dressed up as pious concern

I'm off.

Blissx

It will only be the forth? change in three years.

You want a random and unqualified person from the internet to address the complex needs of a teenager with anger management issues And yet you are quite happy to criticise negatively on the Internet regarding noblegiraffe's situation. Are you for real? Lay off the wine, dear.

Fourth major change but do not forget the constant subsiduary guidance that come out regularly.

I'm very concerned Noble, that you don't know what to do with your anger management child, and rather than apply for statutory assessment you ask people on an internet forum.

Get him properly assessed by professionals and then you will know what to do. Why are you so against that?