to be concerned about my friend giving birth in the USA?

[YoniGetAnOohWithTyphoo]

My friend 'P' got pregnant by an american citizen (unplanned, on holiday kind of thing...) anyway, cut a long story short: he has said that whilst he isn't interested in her (and much less in coming over to the UK to play happy families), he, and moreover his mother, seem very keen for P to come over and give birth in the US, all expenses paid.

Whilst this seems like a nice gesture on the face of it, i'm a bit worried. Notwithstanding the fact that P seems to honestly think she's gonna fly to the USA alone at about 35 weeks pregnant (don't they have rules about this sort of thing?) with all the suitcases in tow, if a baby is born in the USA i'm worried it will be an 'american citizen' and as such, won't just be allowed to fly back to the UK. Do any mumsnetters know about this?

I'm haven't said much yet because I don't want to hurt her feelings or scare her, I know at the end of the day it's her choice... but I can't help thinking she hasn't thought this through. What do you guys think?

A replacement passport is not the same as a first time newborn passport. And the application goes straight to the UK. No embassy.

www.gov.uk/overseas-passports/y

You have to be born in the US if you want to be President. Maybe the dad has his hopes set on this career path for the baby-

Otherwise, why would you do this?

I don't think she'll get past immigration.

A newborn BC ppt can take only a few weeks, it can take considerably more. Depends on the backlog and time of year (ie summer months take longer)

I don't mean to be mean, but are you sure your friend is telling the truth, and not just saying all this about his family because it's what she wants to be true? Because if he isn't interested in her, then he surely doesn't want her baby?

I'd just show her this thread tbh. Then hide her own ppt. Have any of you or your friends met him?

There is a lot of misinformation on this thread. Technically you do not have to be born in the US to be president, you have to be born a US citizen. A US citizen can be born abroad. The statistics on infant mortality in the USA vs. europe are not terribly usable as they are measure very differently. In the usa a very low birth weight premature baby who is born alive, but then dies is considered an infant death, while in many european countries, it would not be counted. My personal experience of giving birth in the UK was beyond awful. I have never encountered such filth, incompetence, understaffing, irresponsible, poor medical care in my life. They almost killed both me and my children. We have a safety net here in the USA that will allow people who can't afford it, or who don't have adequate insurance to receive reduced cost or free medical care. And although that care is not as luxurious as that received by the wealthy or heavily insured, it's certainly medically adequate and a hell of a lot better than the miserable medical care I received in the UK (both for the birth of my children and then for the care of my ds' frequent illnesses). I also found that paying privately for medical care in the UK was no cheaper than doing so in the USA.

Having said all of that, I would not recommend having your child in a country that is not your own and away from your family unless there is a compelling reason to do so.

This is a really terrifying thread. I would show it, or a summary of all the main points raised, to this woman's mother and sisters. Make it clear to them what they stand to lose and then tackle it all together.

Please do update if you can, OP, this is one of those threads that stays with the reader and I so hope your friend doesn't go ahead with this plan.

I agree Sofia. There is an astonishing amount of rubbish spouted on here about the American healthcare system. my impression is that very few people with these views have ever experinced how it works.

It has its flaws to be sure, but so has the NHS.

Having said that, the only reason I can think of to justify the baby being born in the US is that it will automatically be an American citizen and will almost certainly be English as well, if the correct procedure is followed. The baby will NOT automatically have American citizenship if it is born in the UK. It will be entitled to Resident Alien (Green Card) status under certain conditions, but these involve it entering the US on (effectively) a permanent basis.

As has been stated earlier, the US is becoming ever wary of 'anchor babies' , so she may well be refused entry, and anyway, the idea of flying 7+ hours at 35 weeks is plainly ludicrous.

I would question the father's motives on this one..............................

Having been on a due date thread on a mostly American fertility site, from what I have seen a normal birth can run into thousands, a Caesarian into the tens of thousands, and one woman had a bill of hundreds of thousands for her twins with. 2 month nicu stay (thankfully she had insurance)
I can think of no honest reason why anyone would want to pay that sort of bill when in the uk all of the above is available for free on the nhs and the outcome is likely to be similar. I mean if the mum lived in rural India a 2 hour walk from the nearest midwife and a long drive from the nearest hospital able to perform cesarians then you could reasonably assume that they had the woman and babies best interests at heart, but in this case I think there's an ulterior motive, and given the stakes are high and the father can legitimately prevent the baby from leaving the US by not signing the passport form, your friend would have to be absolutely nuts to go along with the plan.

She will need a signed affidavit from the father, in order to leave the USA with the baby.

US Border Control are very strict on this. An American child cannot travel without BOTH parents present, or a signed affidavit from the absent parent.

So he holds all the power if this goes ahead.

I don't know anything about US citizenship, but the baby will definitely be British wherever it is born.

Does the US confer citizenship simply on the basis of jus soli? That is surprising as they are so hot on immigration issues. If just sangue is also used, then would it still be the case if the parents aren't in a "legitimate" relationship? Because this was one of the last things to be sorted out in British nationality law, until a very short time ago, a British father who was not married to the mother could not confer citizenship. (they can now)

Perhaps his family have enough money to cover the birth.

Perhaps the baby, if it needs special care, would be covered under the father's insurance.

It's possible.

But what if your friend suffers post-birth complications - she could have a pph , need a blood transfusion and several nights' stay in hospital... It's possible the family will stump up thousands of dollars for this woman they don't even know. But somehow I doubt it.

I'm sure your friend will change her mind about this crazy plan - there are just so many flaws in it.

I agree with the posters who say take her passport. But do it now - don't give her the chance to get defensive and hide it after you explain your very profound reservations about her intentions. And don't tell her, or she'll just aply for a new one. Bank on it being too late to get one by the time she realises.

I doubt she would a) get a plane to take her and b) get past immigration. A friend of mine was turned back when she was going to the states to visit her fiancé, as she had a wedding dress in her suitcase!

Guilty of not reading whole thread in detail...

Would the American border control even allow her in on that basis? They are very wary of birth-right-tourists. I bet she'll be shoved home again if they realise she's preggers.

And the British mom wouldn't have any automatic right to stay in USA, even if her child does.

I am American & cannot get DC an American passport without British DH's permission (notarised). Even the passport renewals have to be notarised. It's a hassle big deal. You're right to be very concerned for your friend on that point. AND the poor mite will one day be stuck with filing US taxes, what a birthright.

The American relations may be completely genuine in offered generosity. They may not realise that birth on the NHS is good quality and essentially free. Remember how badly the NHS has been slagged off in American media, many Americans believe the NHS is a nightmare system of abysmal dirty & poor quality.

The idea of this happening is giving me palpitations, and I don't even know your friend!

If Wicked Witch of the East Coast (love it, btw) is from NY, and that is the most likely location of the "family home", why is your mate supposed to deliver 400 miles away in Virginia? Will this be beneficial to them legally, due to state law?

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if someone ha already said this ...

It may not be as sinister as you think. Anyone remember when Madonna had her baby and said she wouldn't have one in an English hospital because of the state of them?

The Mother may well have had a bad birth herself, thinks English hospitals are like something out of the third world and is trying to help by arranging what she thinks is a safe clean birth.

Just a thought?

I have no idea how the USA law works now, but when I was at school in the USA(80s), my BF, had an english mother, who spent every penny, trying to get her children back or get access to them,

my friend and her brother who were born there, (it was the day after the birth of the second, he set in progress legal action to stop the children leaving) , were never allowed to back to this country,

she use to come to my house to make secret phone calls to her mum, she never met her grandparents, they died before she visited this country when she was 22,(without her dad knowing) it was incredibly sad.

Their father had insisted their mother came to the states to give birth, she never managed to get them home again, he caused endless problems with her visiting , and my friend(and brother) grew up without her mum. On quite a few occasions she was denied entry to the states, as he had legal proceeding in progress. Both her and her brother have really suffered because of this.

She needs expert advice. but the simplest way of keeping control of her child is to have it here, it will still be able to get a USA passport, but will have UK law on its side.

and if she does give birth in hospital there, she would be responsible for the astronomical costs, so if they then chose not to pay, they could use that as a way of criminalise her, no insurance company will touch her for this trip,

Hideous situation , I hope she sees sense, and has the baby here,

If there was anything wrong with the birth, her or the baby the medical costs will cripple her for life.

Or is it possible the American side of this - the man and his mum just don't know about the NHS and it wont cost anything to your friend and assume they have to help out financially?

Mind you even then it would be easier to just offer some money towards.

No, it still makes no sense.

There's just no benefit to the baby or to the OP's friend for giving birth in the US.

Even if the father & grandmother's motives are pure, the father has made it clear that he doesn't want to be a part of the baby's life, so why go to all the hassle of making the birth convenient for him, when he isn't interested in being a dad?

She would be depriving her own family the opportunity to support her and the baby when they need it most, in favor of making the birth convenient for a guy who couldn't care less, and his mother. Realistically they're never going to be a huge part of the baby's life so there is no sensible reason in making this easy for them but harder for the people who've supported the friend throughout her pregnancy, and are in the position of helping day-to-day with the baby as s/he grows up.

The friend is really not thinking this through. Realistically even if this did go through, she'd be turned away at immigration and the only thing to be accomplished would be 2-3 consecutive days of air travel, a stressful interview by border guards on both sides, and a massively expensive return plane ticket.

I think they want to be at the birth, and instead of flying over to the Uk, they will pay for the costs. But also think granny wants to get her grubby paws on baby.

But, quite frankly, I don't see why she'd bother her arse flying over there, to give birth, and be surrounded by people who don't give a crap. The NHS is free, and she'd have her family around her.

I too think she will be hard pressed to get a flight, and will be turned away by border control on the basis that she's a tourist.

She's best staying here in the Uk with her family and friends, and not with these people in a strange place.

Massive alarm bells!!!!! Huge. Jurisdictional issues right out of the gate and your friend could find herself abandoned with nothing in a foreign country with no staying visa and the relevant jurisdictional court weighing in on where bubs should stay....

Also, she would need to get a leave to remove court order under the UCCJEA which is notoriously hard to get - and with no funding for civil cases.

Being a US citizen is not something that can easily be given up and it's a very expensive commitment, as each US citizen is taxed on global earnings wherever they live. Being born in the UK, you can elect to take the US dual citizenship or not - there is a CHOICE.
being born in the US however automatically confers it and you can then apply for the UK passport.
My sister in law gave birth to both her children in the US (both parents british). On divorce a few years later, she was prevented from leaving the country with her children. Despite countless applications and terrible court action with the father deliberately concealing assets and having treatment for alcoholism, the courts have repeatedly refused to let her move back to the UK and she is stuck until the children are 18 in a country she has no ties to / no family / until recently no right to work, even though both parents are british. Her divorce settlement is american - so spousal support for 4 years post divorce maximum. Particularly in the South, the courts have a strong patriarchal approach. Had she given birth in the UK, she would have had choices - and for your friend to keep her options open, she should do the same - if the family are that concerned, they can send her a cheque for private healthcare in the UK.

She should take advice from a specialist international family lawyer with regard to registration of the baby / applying for US citizenship - remember the father won't be able to go on the birth certificate unless he turns up to register as they're not married. Lots of factors - she should absolutely definitely get some professional advice - they might also be able to explain cross border maintenance orders and whether there's a hope in hell of them being enforceable.