to be concerned about my friend giving birth in the USA?

[YoniGetAnOohWithTyphoo]

My friend 'P' got pregnant by an american citizen (unplanned, on holiday kind of thing...) anyway, cut a long story short: he has said that whilst he isn't interested in her (and much less in coming over to the UK to play happy families), he, and moreover his mother, seem very keen for P to come over and give birth in the US, all expenses paid.

Whilst this seems like a nice gesture on the face of it, i'm a bit worried. Notwithstanding the fact that P seems to honestly think she's gonna fly to the USA alone at about 35 weeks pregnant (don't they have rules about this sort of thing?) with all the suitcases in tow, if a baby is born in the USA i'm worried it will be an 'american citizen' and as such, won't just be allowed to fly back to the UK. Do any mumsnetters know about this?

I'm haven't said much yet because I don't want to hurt her feelings or scare her, I know at the end of the day it's her choice... but I can't help thinking she hasn't thought this through. What do you guys think?

Just looked at the US embassy site. She'd apply under the visa waiver programme, which will allow her to stay for 90 days(assuming she is allowed in ) but she must have a return flight booked.

How is she going to pay medical bills? They won't let her stay unless she has a job etc

They won't let her stay without a proper visa and a green card which she won't get.

This is a nightmare waiting to happen. I say be brutally honest with her about the risks of losing custody of her infant and ending up tens of thousands of dollars in debt. If she's still got romantic notions about the baby's daddy, put it all on grandma. You are being a good friend and one day she'll thank you.

Getting a UK passport in the US is not a lengthy thing. You can get one in two weeks.

It is true to say that she may not be allowed in the country if she is 36 weeks and not American herself.

Re not being allowed in, entirely possible.

The visa waiver programme which EU citizens can use for short stay holidays and business trips of no more than 90 days makes it clear when you use it that even if you fulfill all the criteria (one of which is you must have a return or onwards transit flight booked) actually being allowed in is still at the discretion of US immigration when you arrive.

Re not being allowed in, entirely possible.

The visa waiver programme which EU citizens can use for short stay holidays and business trips of no more than 90 days makes it clear when you use it that even if you fulfill all the criteria (one of which is you must have a return or onwards transit flight booked) actually being allowed in is still at the discretion of US immigration when you arrive.

I agree, one of the scariest things I have ever read on MN. Your friend needs to wisen up, quickly.

I am a Brit (very happily) married to an American. Have a DD born here. Even I, very happy in my relationship, took a good long time to get my head around having a baby by him and over here. Of the three of us, I am the only non-American. In the eyes of the law here, DH has a 'greater' claim to DD than I in the event of a divorce. I basically had to decide that I was ok to live here forever, irrespective of my marital status. It wasn't easy, there was a LOT of soul searching.

Your friend would be blindly walking into a nightmare scenario if immigration ever let her in. If she is stubborn in addition to naive, I would do everything in my power to force her not to go (for my siblings, I would go so far as to remove and 'lose' her passport, although I know some people would balk at that. To me it would be in everyone's best interest and I know I would not be thanked for not protesting loudly enough).

Thing is, it's not just about her. She may think she could cope and work things out (ha!), but what about the baby? Wrenched from its mother? Born into an extended family that is clearly not - given what they are plotting - fussed about her.

It doesn't bear thinking. It's absolutely chilling.

I think the best course of action is to tell her all of these things repeatedly. All the scare stories, the works. Chances are very high that as the pregnancy progresses she won't want to be away from her family/friends, she will develop a strong attachment to the baby, she will not feel up to it physically, and the idea will begin to see like pie in the sky. Hopefully, she will look back and say "I can't believe I ever even considered it!".

Coolstory, do you have any experience of applying for a British passport from abroad as I'm really surprised you say it only takes a couple of weeks. It takes about that applying from here, are you talking about applying for a renewal or a replacement?

Also, when you apply for a passport for a child the photo has to be certified by someone like a solicitor, JP, teacher, minister, police man or woman that the certifier knows the parent applying. I've certified several of these over the years. This woman won't know anyone in the US who will be able to certify the application.

OP, I have lived in the USA in the past, and trust me when I say that it is dangerous to be in America without private health insurance. Insurance which she won't be able to get because she's 32 weeks pregnant and the pregnancy would be a pre-existing condition. Please be sure to convey that to your friend.

Actually, I'm sure someone else has already pointed this out. But I'll post it anyway because it bears repeating. The USA is like no other developed country when it comes to healthcare. For someone who's grown up in a country with a national health service, like your friend, that may be difficult to understand. Even if her baby's father and grandmother are entirely on the up and up (which I don't believe for a moment), if anything goes wrong with either her or the baby when she delivers in an American hospital, the resulting bills could very rapidly outstrip her baby's father and grandmother's ability to pay. Is the grandmother-to-be willing and indeed able to sell her house to cover a NICU stay for a preemie? Most people aren't.

Also, I second the suggestion to ask on the expat forums.

It's so much easier for a mother to go to another continent to give birth, than for a father... To visit the mother in her home country. This is so fishy, please show your friend this thread. The baby can be American no matter where it is born, the dad doesn't need to worry. Birth can also costs tens of thousands of dollars especially if its a csec which is much More likely in the USA.

She might be interested to know that the USA has one ifthe worst maternal and baby mortality rates in the Western world

It's 6 weeks for a british baby passport from usa. From time they receive application. Passport is procesed in the UK

Colderthan, yes at least 6 weeks so Coolstory's "two weeks" comment is nonsense.

She also has to have known the countersignatory for 2 years, which will be impossible.

2 weeks might be doable for an emergency lost passport at the embassy for an adult, I am not sure.. but definitely not the case for a first time passport for a baby. We're looking in to it for ds right now, so aware of the current time frame. And the website guidance is actually a minimum of 6 weeks.

Oh and Op if we haven't convinced your friend yet, please make sure she is aware that a dual national son of hers.. (even living in the UK) still needs to register for the draft.

OP You CANNOT let this happen until you have exhausted ALL & EVERY effort for it NOT to happen - even if the price paid is your friendship.

It is UTTERLY chilling, and also uber transparent - although I get that THAT is to anyone NOT preggers with insane hormones etc, AND seemingly thinking of an utterly non-existent Fairytale ending.

Speak to her family; go on the Expats site for ALL the info you can garner; collectively stage an interention and - if all THAT fails - then I am 1000% with the poster above who said ensure her passport is swiped.

Also, would contact Head of Child Protection/Social Services in P's area. As if 'P' is GENUINELY even considering this, then i: she is definitely not thinking straight (ergo, those who care will need to do that for her; ii: I suspect this as yet unborn child would immediately be placed on the 'At Risk' register - which would both prevent her going even if she was determined to do so; and ensure that her baby is HERE. Safe, sound, available to (frankly terrifying sounding vis intentions) 'GM' and 'DD'/holiday fling to visit and see.

ANYTHING ELSE WOULD BE UTTERLY HORRENDOUS

PS Is it worth another MN'er setting up a thread about 'themselves' and the 'plight' they are 'now in' having done something similar? Appreciate goes against pretty much all most of us (& MNHQ) stand for, but it WOULD be a way for all posters above to then post on and you show her the thread but without the innate defensiveness she may have at you showing her - the beyond valid views - all via a thread that she will see you started?

It just isn't feasible.

if she leaves the UK at 35 weeks then gives birth 5 weeks later... And then needs a minimum of 6 weeks to receive a passport. And assuming it takes her a week to get and the passport sent off and received by the UK..

If she goes over due with the baby she is fucked and has over stayed her welcome which could mean she never gets let back in with her son to visit his dad.

She hasn't got the time on her visa.

No normal human being expects a heavily pregnant woman to leave her friends and family and give birth uninsured in a foreign country. Unless they want to steal the baby. That's not even me being hysterical, that's just the only legitimate possibility I can think of.

Otherwise he would come visit her.

I'm happy to let the OP's friend know we are moving back to the UK because I refuse to give birth here again after having done it in both countries and feeling totally violated by my son's birth.

The friend would do well to watch the film "the business of being born" to understand what I am on about.

But I don't think a discussion about lying to her is helpful as hopefully the friend will read this thread and if the op wants to stay anonymous she can ask MN to name change her on the thread.

Have reffered this thread to my friend on here whose DS dad is American and DS born in America - all custody issues with US courts because he born there so much harder etc.

If the Dad wants to see baby he can come here - she should be here where all her support is

Errrrr...yes I know how quickly you can get a UK passport in the US. It took me about 3 1/2 hours. Having lubed here for almost 7 years, I'm pretty sure I know my shit.

Lived DEFINITELY NOT LUBED!!!!

From a legal blog re Melissa Porter's custody battle

But you're wrong. Just so we get that clear.