to be concerned about my friend giving birth in the USA?

[YoniGetAnOohWithTyphoo]

My friend 'P' got pregnant by an american citizen (unplanned, on holiday kind of thing...) anyway, cut a long story short: he has said that whilst he isn't interested in her (and much less in coming over to the UK to play happy families), he, and moreover his mother, seem very keen for P to come over and give birth in the US, all expenses paid.

Whilst this seems like a nice gesture on the face of it, i'm a bit worried. Notwithstanding the fact that P seems to honestly think she's gonna fly to the USA alone at about 35 weeks pregnant (don't they have rules about this sort of thing?) with all the suitcases in tow, if a baby is born in the USA i'm worried it will be an 'american citizen' and as such, won't just be allowed to fly back to the UK. Do any mumsnetters know about this?

I'm haven't said much yet because I don't want to hurt her feelings or scare her, I know at the end of the day it's her choice... but I can't help thinking she hasn't thought this through. What do you guys think?

Exactly paddyclampo . I'm not sure how they would get past the ESTA anyway if they are planning on travelling on a UK passport. One of the first questions is "country of birth" which for the baby would be the US!

Cross posted with LadyHarriet - but how did the person you know get through the ESTA? Or were they born in the UK?

Nope born in the US.

People do renounce. She hasn't. To be honest I was very surprised it worked and didn't want to scare her. But it did.

I know people renounce. I am hoping to do so in the next couple of months.

Personally I wouldn't recommend lying on the ESTA form btu to each his own.

Oh, and you can't renounce citizenship for your child so unless the mother lies on the ESTA about the place of birth she's still breaking the law.

Sorry, lying on the ESTA is obviously breaking the law as well!

Accd to my husband the form doesn't specifically ask if you are a US national. I was terrified for her- particularly as we'd planned our holiday around them!

Well it asks for your country of birth and if you are born in the US you are by default a US citizen. Unless, of course you have renounced as an adult, but if that is the case, immigration are supposed to ask for the certificate which is sent to you after you renounce at your local embassy/consulate.

None if this is an option for the OP. and I am not recommending it I am just sharing an experience someone had.

I know two people who renounced. One had a letter the other had nothing. Neither was asked for either the next time they entered the US.

Somehow I'm not reassured by anecdotal evidence. It's still illegal.

I'm afraid some people walk into disaster with their eyes wide open and their brain firmly closed.

As much as I feel for her, she's being an idiot and i lose patience with somekne who doesn't even bother to ensure her child is going to have a mother - why isn't she doing this for her child if not for her own sake as a mother?

I think you're being lovely but at what point do you disengage and let her dig her own grave / future?

Oh I would be terrified if esta or ETSA. But the renunciation thing was reassuring. They really did not turn these people over.

What is however much much mire relevant for the OP is that years ago and I am talking pre 9/11 my husband then boyfriend was turned over at immigration because someone had forgotten to take the visa waiver form from his passport and they thought he'd been refused entry. So they do seem to be very on top of visa overstays by foreign nationals previous migration problems. Took a whole to sort this put and he'd never stayed for longer than two weeks at a time. OP is in dicey situation- crazy to go back there.

Sorry on phone.

I think to talk sense into your friend you must get to the bottom of her motivation for all her choices up to this point. Is she in love? Stupid? Is she being abused or manipulated? Does she have the support of her family? How does she imagine her child will cope with this awful arrangement?

Surely someone must be able to make her see sense!

Miscellaneous - I would have let her dig her own grave long ago if there wasn't a child involved. She's basically being negligent to the child, so, if I were OP, I would not be able to back away until it was too late and i had done everything in my power to prevent her leaving the country. I wouldn't be able to live with my conscience otherwise. What a horrific prospect for the child to be forcibly parted from it's mother at 12 months old. And I very much doubt she'd get him back 6 months later anyway (which, even if she did, would be incredibly confusing and traumatic for the baby)

Oh dear god this situation is terrible. Only just read the entire thread

'P' is dealing with this infatuation whilst still post natal. Just a dreadful situation. OP you have been marvellous but you still have to speak to her, and risk putting your friendship on the line.

Good luck

Even though this latest turn doesn't sound too good and not what I was hoping to hear please keep in mind it' not too late for P to wake up and take the steps she needs to protect her child.
First off, she should not go to the US at this time. She does not have to go just because baby daddy says so. He does not have a court order so she is not breaking any laws. Now, has BD actually served her with legal papers or is this just something he proposed? She absolutely does not have to agree with what he is proposing. It is clear that he is very unfamiliar with family law, and judge would not grant an 18 month on-off custody agreement because it simply wouldn't be the best thing for the child.
If BD has actually filed papers P needs to get the docket number. She will then need to respond to his proposal and this will give her the chance to counter offer what she wants ( say she will have full residential custody and BD gets all Summer etc). Ideally she needs an attorney familiar with US family law. In the event BD has not filed papers yet I suggest P flies for custody before he does. She needs to stay on top of this because if he has filed and a court date is granted ( which it will) if she no shows for court he will automatically be granted what he wants.
The reason P must not go to the US with the baby is that once again BD must give her permission to take the baby back out of the country. Since P cannot stay beyond 90 days it would be extremely simple for BD to deny P permission to take the baby back and he could immediately file for single custody.
It's completely irrelevant wether the baby travels on their US or UK passport, they cannot leave the US without BDs consent. This is not a matter or concern for Social services, this is a legal matter.
Suggesting that OP burns P's passport isn't really helpful. Op I suggest that you contact P and say something on the lines of that you are concerned for her having to fight this custody battle, and could you do something to help? You could direct her to the British expats forum where she could get some free and good advice.

Get her to watch the film 'not without my daughter' it was a wake up call to me when I was too trusting to my child's father in Cyprus
m.imdb.com/title/tt0102555/

She needs to understand that if she gets on that plane she will be coming back without her baby.

How you get someone so naive to understand that I don't know. This is tragic

I agree about getting her to watch that film ^

She might be able to connect with it, in a way she isn't currently with people giving her advice.

I would just leave her to it and completely step back if I were you.
Somebody this stupid deserves everything they get.