to be concerned about my friend giving birth in the USA?

[YoniGetAnOohWithTyphoo]

My friend 'P' got pregnant by an american citizen (unplanned, on holiday kind of thing...) anyway, cut a long story short: he has said that whilst he isn't interested in her (and much less in coming over to the UK to play happy families), he, and moreover his mother, seem very keen for P to come over and give birth in the US, all expenses paid.

Whilst this seems like a nice gesture on the face of it, i'm a bit worried. Notwithstanding the fact that P seems to honestly think she's gonna fly to the USA alone at about 35 weeks pregnant (don't they have rules about this sort of thing?) with all the suitcases in tow, if a baby is born in the USA i'm worried it will be an 'american citizen' and as such, won't just be allowed to fly back to the UK. Do any mumsnetters know about this?

I'm haven't said much yet because I don't want to hurt her feelings or scare her, I know at the end of the day it's her choice... but I can't help thinking she hasn't thought this through. What do you guys think?

Cant she start divorce proceeding s here?

please contact social services, OP. This is getting totally out of hand and beyond your abilities to try to intervene. If there's nothing they can do, at least you will have tried but I really think you need to let agencies deal with this.

This woman is stupid, look tell her how it is and what will happen, show her the last bits of this thread as it's really long and leave it to her. Not much you can do, if she looses her child it will be her due to her stupidity!

I would take Marco's point very seriously. The Brits would be able to do nothing.

The baby won't be allowed to enter the US on a UK passport as it's against federal law.

As for refusing to return the baby to the US, this isn't just a US thing. If the shoe had been on the other foot and your friend was a US citizen who travelled to the UK to give birth to a UK citizen's child she'd be in exactly the same boat.

Why didn't the stupid woman listen to all this advice and people warning her?! I agree with the previous poster who said if the woman had stayed in the UK to give birth all of this would be avoided.

I think deep down she wants a relationship with him too.

You can enter the US on another passport...I know those who have done it...

brokenhearted

Peter's case was utterly tragic and headline news because it isn't common for social services to fail a child so terribly.

Burn the passports if you have to.

Get someone, a professional with the right knowledge, round to talk some sense into her.

She sounds utterly stupidly in love and the blinkers are on. I think some group tough tough love is needed in this situation

It is possible to divorce from the UK, my Dh's grandmother managed it back before computers so it is possible.
She's chancing loosing her baby forever for the cloud cuckoo belief she can somehow have a relationship with this man.

Jesus Christ, what a mess. I cannot comprehend how someone can be so naive to the extent that she risks losing her child. Burn the passports or kidnap them.

Unbelievable.

I think you need to put your friendship on the line. I think you need to be focal to her and her friends / family.

Explain that she was lucky to be able to leave the USA with her DS.

That she probably won't be so lucky a second time. That she can't stay for more than 3 months and that her DS has dual nationality, and that a US court may give his father custody. And that if she stays in the UK, there is nothing the babydaddy can do.

She sounds spectacularly naive...

I feel sorry for her. She is clearly so in awe of this man that she thinks he is God and will do no wrong to her. Even if she has any doubts she will be hoping her love for him will be enough.

Unfortunately when it all goes wrong her friends will get the blame for not making her see .

Of course the baby will be able to enter on a UK passport ffs.

Do you think that every airport and airline has been alerted as to the child's name? How the hell will US immigration at the airport know that particular baby is a dual citizen and has another passport.

Yes of course, but don't see how its that relevant. Regardless of how the baby enters the country, by virtue of his US passport (or the fact he is a US citizen) he can stay indefinitely.

I'd read posts earlier on and just updated myself on the latest. OMG! She must be out of her mind. She should NOT return to the US ever, or at least not until she has a UK court custody order determining country of permanent residence, court of jurisdiction, and custody arrangements. Does she not realize that he can go to a US court right now and get an order that states that the child is a US citizen and therefore a US resident based on birth and that only US courts have jurisdiction in matters of custody? And that based on general patriotism chauvinism, most courts will erroneously think that it's 'better' for the child to be in the US (and I'm a US citizen!)? And that because the UK is part of the Hague Convention it's very likely she will be forced to send her child back if he does get such an order & then fight a battle through US courts? In most states the father has equal rights to the child regardless of whether the parents were ever married. Hell, even a one night stand that results in a pregnancy grants equal rights in access!

I agree, hide or lock up the passports (I think it would probably be a crime to destroy them without permission, I'd probably hide them with a friend). Stage an 'intervention' if you have to. If possible, have all her concerned family/friends chip in for a legal consultation with a specialist solicitor.

In these cases, it's always better to be the person who first gets the order. Much harder to do anything to change an order that's already in existence!

Guy at US Embassy took pains to explain that there's an international treaty that says that every citizen is supposed to present themselves as a citizen of that country when they enter (if they are a valid citizen). The penalties for not doing this when entering USA are hypothetically prison term or fines, but reality is that the rules aren't strictly applied to children. (And heaven knows the UKBA couldn't care less).

i can't imagine that which passport baby uses to enter USA will make any difference in a custody dispute; what matters is which jurisdiction the baby is in because each jurisdiction will be prejudiced in favour of keeping baby local. She is on stronger ground in UK, pure and simple.

You do need to be entering on a UK passport if you have a a US one. As others have said, it is a federal offence to enter the US on a foreign passport if you are a US citizen. If the UK passport has the US as the place of birth there is absolutely no way I would chance it. It is entirely possible that you would come across a friendly US immigration officer who would just point out that the child needs a US passport, but it is also possible that you would come across an unfriendly who would not be so lenient.

I say all of this as a dual US/UK citizen with dual citizen children.

Good grief, meant that you need to enter on a US passport!

Brokenhearted, I work with social services in a lot of my cases. To tar them all with the Baby P brush would be like saying that all shop assistants are dishonest because some of them steal from their employers.
Who knows what danger this British citizen baby may be in ? It's a highly unusual situation and I think our children's services would get involved, if only to try and convince her it's not a good idea.

That's what I was trying to say Taz1212 but some people don't seem to know their arse from their elbow when it comes to US border controls.
I'm also a dual national and have to show my US passport before I can even board a plane to the US. It's different for aliens.

I wouldn't do it but I do know someone whose US pp expired she applied for ETSA on her British pp and got in and out no problems. Not an urban myth.