to want the school to admit some responsibility

[Justforlaughs]

Phonecall from school last night. 14yo DD "stormed" away from PE lesson after minor altercation with teacher, didn't return to lesson, an hour later a pupil asks DD something and DD hits her. School want to put DD in isolation for a day. All sounds reasonable, penalty for bad behaviour - and I am not condoning it at all. HOWEVER, DD is by nature the kindest, gentlest, quietest 14 yr old you could ever imagine (won't even put up her hand to answer a question in class because she is too shy) and the ONLY time I can remember her lashing out in the last 4 years or so is when her blood sugars have dropped suddenly - you see she is a Diabetic. To me, the whole incident is typically symptomatic of a moderate/ severe hypo, and I feel strongly that the teacher should have flagged that her "storming" away from the lesson was not "normal" behaviour for DD, she should have followed her/ got first aider to find her and check that she was ok. She sat alone for an hour in corridor, where no-one knew she was before the incident with the other pupil. Not being dramatic, she could have fallen into a coma. The school now want a meeting to discuss her behaviour, so AIBU to raise my concerns. I am honestly, not trying to belittle the fact that she hit another girl, but I don't want either my DD or anyone else getting hurt because of another incident like this. I am worried that it sounds like I am excusing her behaviour, and I suppose I am in a way. WWYD?

In light of this terrible tale, how fantastic that the government has announced that proper care and support in schools for kids with diabetes will now be mandatory.

Have now had our meeting. School admit that they were at fault, that their teachers need more awareness of signs of problems, that she should not have been left alone, that their blood testing policy needs readdressing (looks promising that they will alter that to allow testing anywhere), they admit that the story could have been very different. All good!

However, they insist that she still has to do the 5 days in isolation, because she still hit a child . Although they have agreed that she will spend at least of the time with a councillor (whether she cooperates or not is another issue) to discuss how she feels.

The most worrying thing for me right now, is that her blood tests at the hospital flagged that her blood sugars are not so good, in fact, quite worrying tbh. Not sure what we do about that. They won't consider her for a continous glucose monitor as they say they only do that when they don;t know why blood sugars aren't stable, and they think that hers are unstable because she doesn't follow all the guidelines, no mystery about it.

So still more victim blaming. Why am I not surprised?

It must be very worrying to hear about her sugar levels - hopefully she will get something out of having a counsellor present, but probably not.

It must be very tough to come to terms with a dx of diabetes - no experience of it myself, but I did run into a teenage girl in my dressage class who was newly dx with epilepsy and also not managing it. Uncontrolled epilepsy + big horses - not a great combo. She was in denial and very angry too. It's the last thing you need when you're already dealing with puberty.

Insulin pump! If you say that the diabetes is affecting her mental health it can actually be taken into consideration when they put her forwards for a pump.

Have you suggested the idea to your daughter?

I'm glad the school admitted they were at fault and are putting measures in place to ensure your daughter is safe in future. Diabetes is covered by the disability discrimination act and is treated as a disability by law. I do not often wheel this fact out irl but have done on occasion.

Unfortunately diabetes gets a bad press a lot of the time because often type 2 is referred to in the media and diet and weight are usually implicated as causes. Which is obviously wrong in the case of type 1 and also wrong in some type 2 cases.

Worryingly even the medical profession can be clueless. When I had ds and was in hospital after having a c section I went hypo (2.4) I was treating the hypo when ds started crying to be fed. One of the midwives said "he needs feeding, you can't put your own needs before your baby's" she knew I was diabetic and didn't back down even when I pointed out I was low. Stupid woman. I should have complained really.

The only reason we were nervous about an insulin pump was the trampolining. I'm not sure how "unplugable" they are or how "front landing" friendly they would be either . The nurses say that she needs to have more control before she gets one anyway.

Mittens at midwife! Idiot!

Just - has your daughter had any formal training re the diabetes, like a 'Dafne' course: Dose Adjustment For Normal Eating? Without it it's hard to see cause & effect & I'd find it more understandable that she might be non compliant as why bother if you can't see a benefit? (logical really!) It helps provide some basic rules for dosing vs life, when I did it it was like someone had finally switched the lights on!

I also suspect the barriers to testing the school has put in her way have been major part of the problem, so fingers crossed that will improve now. Did you look into The Insulin Gang on Facebook & online? I'm wondering if some positive peer pressure might help her feel more normal...& make it all feel more manageable.

Well done for sticking to your guns & challening the school's attitude!

Just

I would talk to IPSEA about this one for some legal advice as though I am not sure I think they might be contravening DDA.

The reason I think this is because schools have to have extremely robust evidence that they have done all they can to support a child's needs before they exclude (isolation is exclusion albeit internal).

Not only have they admitted that they are not meeting her needs but actually they failed in their duty of care and they acknowledge that too....

You might decide to just draw a line and move on after your daughter does the isolation but if school don't do as they promise the IPSEA advice might be useful to have....

I hope they get things under control and start to support her. As for people asking if your daughter has had training - waste of time if she is not allowed to manage her condition properly because of school rules.

The schools response it truly shocking. I can't imagine that if the family and girl who were hit would want your daughter punished in this way if they knew the full story.

If the school favour punishment so much how exactly are the teachers involved going to be punished for risking your daughters life? How is the head going to be punished for not protecting the children in their care?

I thought a pump was used when sugars are hard to control? At least, at our school we have a child with a pump because injections just weren't providing enough stability with her sugars.

Mittens- I had GD and the midwives (all of them!) missed that fact on my hospital notes. Until discharge day, when the senior midwife who came to discharge me came very sheepishly and said 'we can't discharge you till we've had 24 hours of glucose readings to ensure your sugars have stabilised'. Luckily for me, I had done a couple, enough for them to be confident that the GD had gone.

They also tried to give me medication incompatible with my Crohn's. luckily I had my wits about me on the operating table (EMCS) and prevented them from giving it to me.

Makes you wonder why we bother writing this stuff in our notes! I was told in future to make sure I get a red wristband instead of a white one- it flags up allergies and serious medical conditions.

Just, I'm concerned that they are insisting that the punishment stands.

This stance clearly indicates that they still see this as a behaviour issue and will do the same for any future incidents.

If your DD continues to have an unstable blood sugar she is at a high risk of ending up excluded permanently and that is going to be seriously damaging.

In your position I would pursue this until I had it in writing that they acknowledge that she is not responsible for her own behaviour while her BM is low and therefore will not be subject to the normal school's behaviour management process if it is likely to have been a factor in any incident.

This school sounds very dogmatic and it will probably be easier to get them to change their stance now than getting them to back down once they have made other dreadful decisions in the future.

It's probably worth finding out who the SEN governor is and asking for a meeting.

Now is also probably the time to mention the SEND Tribunal.

DayshiftDoris - I agree that the school's policies are a total disgrace & barrier to care - the reason I am enquiring about the training is because I've been there, done that - I was diagnosed over 20 years (dx in infancy) before managing to access training to enable me to get a grip on what was going on (my main diabetic carer, mum, died when I was a kid & dad was clueless). If the school removes it's barriers to testing but the OP's daughter has never been taught what to do with the test numbers she sees beyond 'eat if you're hypo' then you're no better off. It will help her to feel empowered if she has some workable 'rules' & will give her a voice when her teachers fail her - e.g. "I can't do P.E now miss, look at my meter, my levels are far too high/low for it to be safe".

I'm not having a go at anyone, or trying to add problems, but I've been there & knowledge can be empowering.

I'm going to back away now & mind my own business.

Best of luck to your daughter OP.

Agree with gold that I think the school should be reducing the punishment and have in writing thar behaviour caused by hypo will not lead to exclusion every time, in fact I think you are being impressively calm when had they provided the care they should have in the 1st place it would not have happened.

Plodding - no you are absolutely spot on about the training but I was just trying to emphasis the impact the school has...

My son has autism and high anxiety... We have, to great success, taught him self-regulation and anxiety management techniques at home which he still needs a lot of support with but at school there is not an acknowledgement he needs it or is even anxious. He's not provided with supports to use the knowledge he has and he can't apply it effectively which sends the message that he doesn't need it anyway...

It's a frustrating cycle which if not recognised becomes about the child not managing their own condition / being bad at what they are doing when in fact it comes down to not having access to the right tools.

Sorry OP slight digress

The notes that were taken by the head of house/ acting deputy head in charge of behaviour state that this was probably a hypoglycemic episode and that in future any change in behaviour is to be seen first and foremost as a possible medical issue and the first aider called.
He is also going to ask the head teacher about changing their policy re. blood testing around the school.
(I have a copy of those notes)
I will also look into the training mentioned by Plodding. The diabetes nurse will be going into school to speak to DD tomorrow afternoon, about the results from the hospital, as I feel that she may be more receptive and open without me being around.
Hoping I don't feel "impressively calm" tbh I spent most of Saturday dissolving into tears and now feel like I have let her down by not fighting harder for the punishment to be reduced. I'm torn over it, people who DO understand anything about diabetes see the issue, but anyone who doesn't understand thinks that the punishment has to stand for the sake of the child who was hit. They think that the school has to stick with the rules or everyone would come up with an excuse. I've tried to argue that if someone was having an epileptic fit and kicked someone they would not be sanctioned for it, but they just can't see that it's in any way similar. On the bright side DD is quite happy in her little booth, (we are looking into whether she is being bullied as well, as she has told someone that she is - so it MIGHT be a sanctuary) but she's proud of the amount of work she is getting done - far more than in a normal lesson and then she spends the rest of the day drawing - which is her favourite hobby, and lapping up the admiration of the supervising staff [proud emoticon]

It's good that you have a copy of the notes.

If your DD isn't upset about the current sanction (I can well understand why she isn't) maybe allowing the school to save face on this occasion is the best course of action.

However, in your position I would insist on a written agreement that , in future, any lashing out that happens when she is likely to be having a hypo will not be treated as a behaviour issue and she will not receive any future exclusion, internal or external, for behaviour she displays while confused or disorientated by her medical condition.

If they won't agree to this you should probably take it further because there's a good chance of her having hypos in school in the future and she is going to end up with a permanent record of exclusion if they don't agree to make reasonable adjustments.

Even if the staff are more responsive to signs of a hypo she will still be around other pupils who may taunt her if she starts acting differently and there will be periods like lunchtimes when staff aren't around to help her. She is very vulnerable and they need to acknowledge that she isn't in control of her own behaviour at certain times.

just im so sorry to hear upset you have been it makes me even more with the school. The point you make is right ok so your dd hit another child but it would not have happened if school had cared for her properly. I think if the school came to me as a parent and said you ds was hit but the pupil was suffering a side affect of medication for a serious health condition that affected the behaviour I would be happy with an apology to my ds.You haven't let her down at all you tried to get the punishment reduced its the school who has let her down. Is the diabetes nurse going to speak to the school while she is there?
If it gives you any hope I wasnt in good control from 17-19 I was in denial I think but I did improve and then relapse into crap control when other issues arose it became back of my list of priorities however I now have better control and 2 healthy kids

Good idea, Gold I will get in touch with the head teacher (or send DH in tomorrow on his day off [coward emoticon, pretending to be a "include DH in parenting" emoticon]) and get an agreement along those lines in writing. I have also spoken to several of her friends, made it clear that they are NOT "responsible" for her, but asked that IF they think she is acting "out of character" that they flag it with a teacher and remind them to check on her.

Hoping I don't think I did push hard enough to get the punishment reduced. I agreed that some sanction would be appropriate for the sake of the other child. I also wanted my DD to appreciate that she does need to have better b/s control, whether or not it would have prevented this hypo, or guarantee no more. I did point out, both in an email to the head and in person at the meeting that I felt the punishment was harsh and inappropriate in the circumstances, but pushed more for the positive use of the time - in the offer of counselling and an open ear than for a reduction. It's a bit late now but I will do what Gold suggested in case of other incidents.

just I think you did fine its very hard to get a school to go back on a punishment after its already been started and your dd seems happy with it as it stands but yes I would do what gold said for the future

Sounds like she is quite enjoying her punishment lol! I think the school is taking this fairly seriously but don't want to admit they were wrong. But you may find that they start to improve. It really is best to go in with a fairly positive helpful attitude at least to start with and then see how the school responds. As you learn more you will know better what to do if they are still not doing all they should to take care of her, so keep researching. It is a learning curve for you and your dd and I think your being fairly positive and as calm as possible will help her. She needs to take her condition more seriously but be less upset about it. She needs to see a positive future not a scary one, and to feel that she can manage her condition and lead a normal life. By encouraging her to take responsibility but finding her the support she needs you are helping her take control and feel more confident. So I think you are doing the right thing and just keep going and don't feel discouraged if it takes a while to get things sorted, you will do it and things will improve.

Don't give yourself a hard time Just

I've been having meetings and battles like this on an almost daily basis for the past five years. I know the Equality Act and the SEN Code of Practice better than most SENCos and am on first name terms with half the staff in our LA SEN dept.

I still come out of every meeting kicking myself for not sticking to my guns about something or neglecting to raise some really important issue.

You were in a meeting where you were probably outnumbered and, while you had a deep emotional investment in the subject, for everyone else it was all in a day's work.

You did brilliantly to get the concessions you have and to get them to admit that they have failed your DD. All you need to do now is get that last bit in place which protects her in the future.

MNers will be behind you for however long that takes

I feel bad Just

You shouldn't have to do this stuff and no one prepares you for it.

You are doing an amazing job... Even knowing what I know, with the experiences I have I let an issue go in June that I was concerned would have a negative impact....
Guess what I am now battling to sort out & undo?
Sometimes you have to lose the odd battle to win the war

You are doing just fine, brilliant in fact and you absolutely do get it - other people might not but you do and so eventually your DD will. And I get the feeling that your school might

Thanks for the votes of confidence, I'll keep going. Hats off to those of you who have been battling for years. I feel like I've been pulled through a mangle several times!

Kind of irrelevant to the thread, but we've just been asked to fill in questionaires for the Ofsted inspection!
Deep breath!