to want the school to admit some responsibility

[Justforlaughs]

Phonecall from school last night. 14yo DD "stormed" away from PE lesson after minor altercation with teacher, didn't return to lesson, an hour later a pupil asks DD something and DD hits her. School want to put DD in isolation for a day. All sounds reasonable, penalty for bad behaviour - and I am not condoning it at all. HOWEVER, DD is by nature the kindest, gentlest, quietest 14 yr old you could ever imagine (won't even put up her hand to answer a question in class because she is too shy) and the ONLY time I can remember her lashing out in the last 4 years or so is when her blood sugars have dropped suddenly - you see she is a Diabetic. To me, the whole incident is typically symptomatic of a moderate/ severe hypo, and I feel strongly that the teacher should have flagged that her "storming" away from the lesson was not "normal" behaviour for DD, she should have followed her/ got first aider to find her and check that she was ok. She sat alone for an hour in corridor, where no-one knew she was before the incident with the other pupil. Not being dramatic, she could have fallen into a coma. The school now want a meeting to discuss her behaviour, so AIBU to raise my concerns. I am honestly, not trying to belittle the fact that she hit another girl, but I don't want either my DD or anyone else getting hurt because of another incident like this. I am worried that it sounds like I am excusing her behaviour, and I suppose I am in a way. WWYD?

sorry for all typos!!!

I would suggest you look into taking a disability discrimination appeal to the Special Educational Needs and Disability Tribunal.

It's a bit early for taking that sort of action. The OP needs to make sure that the school is fully informed about diabetes and the nature of hypos and give them a chance to show that they will put procedures and training in to make sure her DD is safe in the future. This can be a learning opportunity if they are prepared to take it.

If, however, they remained entrenched in their view that this is purely a behaviour management issue, taking them to the SEND Tribunal could well be a good way forward.

Thanks again everyone, will update you after hospital appointment tomorrow.
I don't think I've ever been so glad of mumsnet!

Copy of email sent to head teacher, please tell me it was ok, too late if it wasn't . I've spent ages on it.

Dear Mr (head teacher)
Last week there was an incident in school, where she "stormed" out of a PE lesson, "didn't return", and when some of the girls found her at lunch time "she punched and kicked one of them". The result of this was a phone call from Mr XXX (edited by MNHQ) where he explained that you wanted to put her into an internal suspension (which at the time I assumed was a 1 day thing). I didn't argue against that, because I am of the opinion that the other child and their mother have the right to know that action has been taken to prevent a reoccurance of the incident.

However, I highlighted that as this was the first time that this happened and that it was entirely out of character for DD (I have since confirmed this with members of staff at the school), I suggested that she may well have been having a moderate/ severe hypo and that this is precisely the reaction I would have anticipated if she had been. Mr (head of house) agreed that we needed to have a meeting to discuss the issue, and this will be on Tuesday at 9.30 (at the same time as we discuss something else). I was dismayed on Friday to find that DD had already been placed in this internal suspension and felt this was premature as I had been hoping that she would be given the chance to use the time to talk to someone (such as Mrs suppprt worker) about the issues and problems she has been having with her diabetes recently. I was even more dismayed yesterday to receive a letter from the school, stating that this was in fact a 5 day internal suspension and has also been recorded on the School Disciplinary Register at Stage 1 . While I support the school in their discipline procedures and believe wholeheartedly in consequences for actions, I don't feel that this action is appropriate at this time.

I am also very concerned about the fact that the school have failed totally in their Duty of Care towards DD. I don't feel that any pupil should be allowed to leave a lesson and be unattended for an hour, but when that child is a known diabetic who is acting completely out of character this concern becomes intensified. If her blood sugars had been dropping at this point (which we will never actually know for certain due to lack of action taken, but I strongly suspect) she could easily have become disorientated and confused (supported by the fact that she says that the hour "went very fast"; that she doesn't remember sitting in the corridor for "very long"; and the fact that she then lashed out at someone). Not only could this incident have been prevented with intervention at that point, she could have lost consciousness and slipped into a coma, in extreme cases death can result. It might sound dramatic, but I don't believe that this is overstating the case. Having had 2 occasions in the past 4 months where DD has been unconscious in the mornings and one where we ended up being rushed to A&E with a very close call, I hope you can understand my concerns. It has been made very clear to the school, at previous meetings, that if DD is unwell then she needs to be accompanied to the first aid room/ first aider called immediately. I feel very strongly that this is a massive failure by the system in place and this needs to be addressed for the sake of everyone involved. I would be grateful if I could see the incident and accident reports that will have been filled out as a result of this incident, they may help to shed some light on exactly what happened and why. DD will not be in school on Monday as she has a hospital appointment, where I will be asking her consultant and nurse for advice on what action to take next.

Kind Regards
etc

Good email. It raises all the issues, is supportive of the school's disciplinary issues and isn't too emotional whilst still conveying the intensity of your feelings.

One of my colleagues is diabetic and we prompt her if she acting out of character. She can say and do stuff she doesn't mean but we know she is hypo
People can act TOTALLY out of character. I know from being epileptic as a child, if people weren't quiet when I came round I got really combative and aggressive. I would swear, and once punched someone in the face. It wasn't intentional, I had no recollection of it at all after I came round fully
For me, the teachers all need to be aware and prompt her to check sugars if she is acting not like herself. I don't get the first aid room thing either, we had diabetics at our school and they carried their own stuff and just found a quiet corner

Goldmandra, the problem with a wait and see approach is that there are time limits for bringing a disability discrimination claim. But really I think the OP should be using the threat of this to let the school know that they have been acting illegally and that they won't get away with it if they continue.

OP, your email looks fine to me, except that maybe I would want to make it clearer that they should be removing that punishment and that they have not complied with their equality duties in respect of dd's disability.

Nice and controlled and clear. You might want to ask for the teacher's name to be taken out though!

I think that's a good email.

You've raised all the important points clearly and concisely, told them that you consider the punishment to be inappropriate, and made it clear that they have failed your DD and the matter is not closed for you.

I wouldn't ask to just see the paperwork but to have a copy, with the other child's name blanked out if necessary. You can ask for this at the meeting next week.

Goldmandra, the problem with a wait and see approach is that there are time limits for bringing a disability discrimination claim.

The time limit is six months and you have to show that you have tried to resolve the matter without resorting to the tribunal first.

It is entirely appropriate to raise the matter at this stage with the head and ask them to address the matter without mentioning the tribunal. No point in getting people's backs up unnecessarily.

However, depending on the school's response, this idea could focus their minds considerably.

Thank You, I thought I had removed all references to names how do I do that now?

Report it and ask MN to do it for you.

Click 'report' button on top right of the post concerned.

Have done so. What a dufus [face palm]

Not at all!

You can sit back now and switch off this for a few hours.

I hope the appointment goes well tomorrow

What!! Goldmantra turn mumsnet off?? What are you saying
Think I just might though.

That's a good letter.

seriously though, I cannot emphasise enough how important it is that your daughter is allowed to have her testing kit on her - if it was my child & the school still refused, I'd try forcinf their hand via the DDA route & failing that move the child. With something like a 'multiclix' device (where you have a cartridge of lancets so don't have loose used sharps lying around) there is no need for concern re sharps with blood on, & frankly you can do FAR less damage with a lancet device than you can with a set of compasses, dinner fork, metal ruler...you get my drift.

The only way your daughter is going to be able to have any chance of stable blood sugars & long term health is if she has got into the habit of testing & correcting being 'no big deal' - at the moment the school's policy is making it a huge effort, & if she's high or low it's a big ask of her to expect her to flag it up, potentially disrupting the class (teen feelings of "hey, everyone, I'm the freaky diabetic kid!!" humiliation) & then manage a walk across school whilst feeling lousy. It's so wrong & damgerous & I'd have hated it myself at that age, it's another barrier to staying well. < that's not a dig at you, that's to try & help you explain to school why frankly a test kit the other side of school is not a reasonable adjustment. I really feel for your daughter, this is not what you need on top of normal teenage stuff!

MN off?

NEVER!!!!!

Can you even do that?

You can switch off from your own thread and read all the others

With some well earned and birthday

I haven't read the whole thread, but your dd hasn't had very long to come to terms with the diagnosis. At 13/14 there are all sorts of emotions and being different is a huge deal. However do try and contact
diabetes uk or speak to the nurse about what you can do to help her.

if she's not testing because she doesn't want to leave to go to the first aid room, would she actually test in front of her friends?

Does she take the right amount of insulin when she eats? Of course a hypo is dangerous but the long term effect of high blood sugar is even more so.
Abusing diabetes for weight loss /control is very common in teenage girls.

I think the email is good.

I especially like that the OP has asked for the incident and accident reports. Quite frankly, this request should be a red flag to the school that they have made a bad mistake, because I would be surprised if they have actually completed these.

As a teacher my initial reaction to this situation was that YABU; but, bloody hell! Your DD's school has some serious Duty of Care issues.

YADNBU

As far as behaviour goes, the idea of school is to teach that there are consequences to behaviour, but there has to be the opportunity to redeem themselves! Otherwise, what's the point? What are they actually being taught? Yes, your DD hit another student but, surely, in this situation an apology might have been more apt? Your DD is taught that she is always responsible for her actions yet she learns that her medical condition isn't more of a burden to her than it already is and that there are compassionate people out there. Not to mention how she feels about herself; if this is out of character she's probably given herself a huge shock. As if being a teenager isn't hard enough already without something like this messing with your identity.

The school should have shared the information about your DD: any teacher worth their salt would have dealt with the initial situation very differently. I know some teachers don't 'care' but I can't see a teacher ignoring a possible medical issue that is happening in front of them. I'm sure it's happened but it can't be common. I'd be interested to hear the teacher's perspective (the teacher who's lesson she stormed out of) as I bet they are furious for not knowing about the medical condition. There are so many issues here and I'm furious for you. No child should be left unattended for an hour when they should be in a lesson, medical issue or not.

There are so many mole hills posing as mountains that are brought to the head teachers attention that you are absolutely doing the right thing by not letting the issue drop. That school needs some serious education on medical conditions, it's terrifying. I'm frequently scared because of my lack of understanding about the medical conditions suffered by a lot of my students. The problem is that although the names of medical conditions are used, that's where the knowledge ends for most teachers. There are crib sheets available and, of course, google but there is rarely anything in place and readily available to assist with properly educating teachers about them and this is a huge failing in the education system.

I'm sorry this has turned into a bit of a rant, but I feel so terrible for you and your DD. I think it's because I was ignorant to a medical issue once and a poor student ended up in hospital. Thankfully he was fine but I've never felt so bad, I met with his furious parents and held my hands up. I did so much research, I proved myself to his parents that I genuinely cared and then I left that particular school, mainly because the school accepted no responsibility, despite the information about the medical issue not being shared or even mentioned. I doubt the school will accept they have done anything wrong, you might have a fight on your hands but please, please don't give up or settle for being fobbed off. Tell them you want proof of the staff being educated, the staff will thank you for helping them to be more aware. Best of luck.

Hope it's gone okay today.

No reply from the school, but I wasn't really expecting one given that we have a meeting in the morning. Hospital appointment went well, thanks. DD spoke to nurse about a few issues in school but otherwise she is doing well overall. Nurse will be coming along tomorrow for support. School weren't impressed that she was out of school all day, but as appointment was a long one and we've just got back (less than an hour left) it wasn't worth sending her in, especially as she would be in the isolation room and seems to spend the time drawing rather than doing any work anyway. Ah well, will see what transpires tomorrow. No doubt I'll be updating at some point

Good news that the nurse is attending with you tomorrow

I imagine there is a flurry of activity going on at school while they work out how to approach the matter tomorrow.

Do you have someone who can come with you to take notes? If not you can take a phone/ipad and get everyone to agree at the beginning to you recording the meeting.

Also be aware that schools often fill rooms with 'essential' staff in meetings like this because they know it can make it harder for parents to stand up to them.

Write bullet points of the important things you want to make clear and be firm about being allowed to ensure they are all addressed.

When you get home afterwards, whatever the outcome, write up what you feel was discussed and agreed and email it to the school as a record. If they don't dispute your version it then becomes an agreed record.

Glad you have the nurse with you tomorrow. After that the school will have no excuse to not understand.

I like the idea of taking notes goldmantra thanks for the tip.