To be pissed off at BIL's and SIL's money issues?

[DSM]

Lets's begin this with the story - this is about DP's Brother and his wife.

DP and I are both low earners (both

I'm with Wips on this one! What does BIL do to get a pay increase of that order?!?

Accusations of jealousy are uncalled for. Do people really think it's OK, if you are a family with a couple of houses, two cars, and fantastic earning potential, to moan to another family, who you KNOW are less well off than you, about how poor you are. Do you think this a classy move? Or perhaps that a little discretion is required?

They are being weird and insensitive. From their point of view, your BIL earns 50K but he is spending a lot of his time at work with people who earn 20 times that. So it's understandable that they don't see themselves as well off. But it's unfortunate that they don't have the self-awareness to make the comparison the other way and be more sensitive to your circumstances. I think you are going to have to spell it out to them if you want it to stop.

And with the wine, why didn't you say no? That was completely taking the piss.

No it didn't? I wrote:

both

If he earns 50k they shouldn't be getting tax credits

alarka - that is a good point, actually. I wonder if that is what is clouding their judgement? Seeing how well off his professional peers are? Possibly. Still makes moaning to us bloody insensitive though.

With the wine.. how could we say no? We were on our way round, for dinner, and they called and said 'could we ask you to bring the booze, we are a bit broke'. You can't very well say no.

Some people just like to talk about (and moan about) money and I find it has very little to do with how much they do or don't have. You won't change them but can make an effort to develop a nice line in sarcastic retorts if it makes you feel better, plus be relieved that you and your DH have more interesting conversation to share.

In a situation like that with the wine, will they return the favour later? What does your DP think about it all?

Well, if it's taken him eight years to get there then you have to give him some kudos for sticking that out. But I really think they may be exaggerating and that's a potential salary not a given that in two years it will go to that.

Is there no scope for you or your DP to retrain if you wanted to.

They defo do get tax credits, because she has told us numerous times that she can't go back to work as it wouldn't be financially sensible because once they lost tax credits, and added in travel and childcare, it wouldn't be worth it.

I completely know that - when DS was pre-school, I worked 50 hours a week for about £100 a month more take home pay than I would have on TC. But being a WOHM was the right thing for me at the time.

Oh, I do get it. Possibly in a weird way they feel guilty about the disparity and are over-compensating on the money moans as a result. A sort of desperate 'Don't hate us, really we're in the same boat' thing.

Day to day they may feel they are no better off than you, or than average. But that isn't really true. They may not have much more cash than you, but they have assets (as a colleague of mine once acidly remarked to someone doing a similar moan, 'Remortgaging to free up equity in your house is not the same as being skint').

Bottom line, they have options. They have choices. If disaster hits? Sell a car, sell a house. SIL can get a job. There is no slack in your system like that at all. Simply, you are much less financially secure and your future looks very different.

Solutions? (1) Out-moan them to the point of parody, until they give up; (2) DH tells them privately and as politely as he can that you do not want to hear it any more; (3) Avoid them.

If he earns £50K he will have lost his CB no?

I never moan about money, I prefer to keep my financial affairs private, I certainly wouldnt go on about lack of money to someone who I knew to have a much lower income than me.
If they dont have enough they ought to adjust their expenditure and live within their means.

I'd be tempted to tell them to stop moaning & do something about it!

If he doesnt register for self assesment before today (I think, or some date very soon) he'll get a fine for late registration and have to pay tax pack on the child benefit.

You have to activley say you dont want it if earning over 50k or you have to pay the tax on it.

Dont udnerstand why they get tax credits though.

No, you don't lose it completely until you hit £60k. You lose 10% per thousand pver £50k. Otherwise you end up with the cliff where it's not worth earning the extra money over £50k for ages.

I don't understand how they get tax credits - we don't and have two kids and I earn about £50k.

They're being a bit tactless, but I don't think it's totally unreasonable. We've stretched ourselves to afford some building work, but we're adding to our assets (our house) and while I feel a bit skint, I know I'm not as skint as say my Mum, who earns £16k a year and has a house worth much less than ours. I wouldn't moan at her about money though, although I do whine about the builders.

What is your BiL's job? I'm wondering about a change of profession...

wouldnt you likely come out with similar amounts in the end? they will pay more tax and no cb now?

Someone earning 50k does not get tax credits. Either they are lying about getting tax credits or about how much he really earns.

Will he honestly go from earning 50k to 900k in a few months?

Eldritch EXACTLY.

They might not have disposable income, fair enough. Nor do we.

But they have assets. They have savings. They have fallback plans. If he was suddenly unable to work, they could sell their house and move into the one they own outright. They could sell a car. She could work. Lots of options. Of which we, have none.

We earn just over £30k and don't get any tax credits with 2 children!

I can't say because she is on MN, but it is essentially a self employed role, and there are very few of these positions held and they normally earn between £600k - £900k. He expects to be the higher end. He has just finished the last part of his training, and during training he was paid a basic £50k salary.

He now works properly, and he will, in the next 2-3 months, start being paid for that work. It's essentially consultancy work in a very specialised, high profile profession.

They say they get TC. Maybe they are lying, I have no idea.

And yes, AT THE MOMENT maybe our take home pay isn't wildly different. We do get TC (£14 a week, thanks hmrc..) and CB (£20 a week) and presumably he pays higher tax than us, so maybe we are about the same, really, just now. Though they also have income from the rental, which we don't, and our rent is more than double their mortgage every month.

AND THEY ARE ABOUT TO START EARNING BIG BUCKS!

That, is my issue.

When he does start earning big they probably won't moan about how little money they have but will probably complain about the amount of tax he is paying!

well just chill out then because in a few months it will all be over.

if they moan after that then ywnbu to tell them to shut their moaning faces

Some people are just moaners.

Try my mother's gambit: 'Well, try not to complain about it too much'. Said with a sweet smile. Have to have the hide of a rhino to carry on after that.

YANBU! I got something a bit similar - Dsis and SIL having a competitive moan (in front of me) about night wakings with toddlers. My DD is 16 so is like Rip Van Winkle (now).

They patronisingly then said to me "Sure DD never woke, she always slept through" and I lost it and said quite sharply "She woke at least once a night for the first two years of her life, when I was a single parent and did every single night waking while holding down a full time job after only 4 month's maternity leave." They have never moaned in front of me since. (each, at the time, had a supportive husband doing half of everything - and SiL has not worked full time since their first was born)

I suggest that the next time they moan you look mistily in to the distance and say "Oh, to be earning €50K as a family - we can only dream of that, we're only on half that amount and will never have a big increase. Isn't your salary due to go up tenfold soon? Aren't you lucky to own a house outright with no mortgage/lucky that only one of you has to work, we'll never be in that position" .

And if they EVER ask you to bring all the wine again, just say "No, you invited us, and if we pay for it, DD/DS will have no lunch money next week. Why are you having a dinner party if you can't afford it." (OK that's a bit pissy, I know!).

Frankly, they sound a bit entitled and moany and would drive me NUTS. I find with people like this you have to be quite direct (I've another friend married to someone earning half a mill a year, who was quite fond of pointing out how I should buy an investment property . I took her aside & told her it wasn't a runner and would she please not go on about it, and she copped on and stopped talking about it in company.

I think they're being awful, especially considering they know your circumstances! And 50k IS a lot, not sure why all the posters here seem to think its not, there must have been an influx of Rockefellers to MN. If you're on 50k per year and you're skint you're either lying about your earnings or you're really stupid with money, either way I would probably just keep my mouth shut!