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Original poster

To refer to a black man as a black man

574 replies

ShakeRattleNRoll · 03/10/2013 23:55

The other day i was talking about this black man who lives down the road to a neighbour and she said it was politically incorrect of me to say 'you know that black man who lives there' after I had said it.I thought well i never.What's wrong with calling him a black man when he is a black man? How should have I described him? TYIA

OP posts:
AmberLeaf · 04/10/2013 01:46

Gangsters, Um no it certainly does not mean that.

Serendipity30 · 04/10/2013 01:46

Daleybump who said it was racist? receipts please.

AmberLeaf · 04/10/2013 01:47

Sugarhut I have already quoted gangsters posts and responded to them. If you read my posts you will understand my objections...or maybe not.

GangstersLoveToDance · 04/10/2013 01:47

Then please reply to the direct question which both myself and now another poster are asking.

Serendipity30 · 04/10/2013 01:47

If the OP was going going to give the 'Black man' a present why did she not know his name? She also identified him as a biker which was more appropriate unless she lives on a street with bikers.

DaleyBump · 04/10/2013 01:48

Well no, I won't. It's right there in the thread, I won't hunt for it or mention other posters by their names. You can find it if you like.

Serendipity30 · 04/10/2013 01:48

Too many people on here getting their knickers in a bunch, night

GangstersLoveToDance · 04/10/2013 01:49

You have pretty openly called me a racism-apologist and hence also a racist.

Have the good grace to prove your point or wind your neck in and apologise.

YellowDinosaur · 04/10/2013 01:49

Hankuna jacks has said it was racist

YellowDinosaur · 04/10/2013 01:51

And I also find your posts frustrating Amber.

Hakuna is making similar points to you but articulately and backing them up. I can respect her opinions even off I don't agree with them all.

You are being repeatedly asked to back up what you've said and are just responding with 'read your own posts' and 'another cliche' etc. which isn't exactly backing up your points.

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy · 04/10/2013 01:52

No, Mistress, I wouldn't be offended, but it would back up that part of society where we're reduced down to that - and nothing else. Just because it isn't the worst thing ever doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, that it doesn't add to it.

Go to a group and everyone gets described in detail, then you get described with one word. And have that happen over and over again to you. the same thing regardless of what you do or what you say and everyone you know who looks like you, which you won't often see in media or in education or in every day life especially when growing up. It makes things look different - amazing, our experiences change based on our skin colour and changes our perspective.

Gangster, your minimizing of a person's experiences with racism as a "chip on the shoulder" and that they can deal with racism better fit they "get therapy", your putting the problem of racism on to the victims and perpetuating a system where the oppressed have to deal with our pain silently and not get emotionally and must discuss rationally. You are a supporter of the system that silences victims and you refuse to acknowledge the pain that being silenced and mocked as you have done can cause.

YellowDinosaur · 04/10/2013 01:53

gangster read the op carefully and then tell me you can't see racism

This post by jacks is calling the op racist

AmberLeaf · 04/10/2013 01:54

My honest opinion is that some people just look for prejudice/something to complain about for no reason

There's no pleasing some

Well to be honest Amber, if it causes you such problems in day-to-day life then you're probably better off speaking to someone about it privately that wasting your energy becoming outraged about the most innocent comments. It screams chip on the shoulder

The world does not set out to offend you

You are doing your best to find racism in people's comments though. Like I said, it just screams that you have a chip on your shoulder

Some people love to be offended. They love to try to take the moral high ground. They will grasp at any subject and try to turn it around/deliberately misunderstand things for absolutely no reason

Your inability to discuss a matter in a sensible manner does nothing for the cause you are apparently trying to champion

A whole load of cliches. cliches that I have heard soo many times from people trying to silence calls of racism.

Minimising cliches.

SugarHut · 04/10/2013 01:56

Ahhh, ok yep just scrolled up and seen a few things you've quoted and replied to. One is making a bit of a weird comment that something far from a cliché, is a cliché. But further up I see something of interest...

It's the "Some people like to be offended...deliberately misunderstand.." that she says. Which is true. Some people are like this. In all walks of life. Some people are just pains in the arse like this.

I don't see how from that, you perceive that she is belittling the severity, or minimising the effects of racism? It just seems to be your interpretation, which I don't understand. Mine is quite the opposite, which therefore you don't understand. Doesn't mean you're right. Doesn't mean I'm right either.

GangstersLoveToDance · 04/10/2013 01:58

Gangster, your minimizing of a person's experiences with racism as a "chip on the shoulder''

I have NOT done this. I have used the term 'chip on the shoulder', I believe in direct response to Amber who has continually posted frustrating half-points where she is apparently getting very offended about various genuinely innocent comments that has been posted.

Everything that I have seen of this specific poster since has, indeed, confirmed my opinion that she DOES have a chip on her shoulder. I don't actually think this chip is even vaguely related to race or racism FYI.

I think she is looking for an argument and trying to chivvy up a witch hunt. Which is pitiable.

AmberLeaf · 04/10/2013 01:59

Gangster, your minimizing of a person's experiences with racism as a "chip on the shoulder" and that they can deal with racism better fit they "get therapy", your putting the problem of racism on to the victims and perpetuating a system where the oppressed have to deal with our pain silently and not get emotionally and must discuss rationally. You are a supporter of the system that silences victims and you refuse to acknowledge the pain that being silenced and mocked as you have done can cause

This.

GangstersLoveToDance · 04/10/2013 02:00

What calls of fucking racism?

There has BEEN no racism on this thread.

YellowDinosaur · 04/10/2013 02:00

go to a group and everyone gets described in detail, then you get described with one word. And have that happen over and over again to you. the same thing regardless of what you do or what you say and everyone you know who looks like you, which you won't often see in media or in education or in every day life especially when growing up. It makes things look different - amazing, our experiences change based on our skin colour and changes our perspective

Very thought provoking spork. I still don't think the op was doing anything wrong but this helps me to understand why people with repeated experience of insidious racism might see this as this. Because their background and experience has taught them to expect it so they see it even when it's not intended.

I have been the victim of racism incidentally. In Trinidad. I was told 'get back to your own fucking country' by a man I was waking past in the street who I hadn't said anything to or seen before. It was scary and upsetting. Having to face it and for it to be minimised repeatedly would btw shite

GangstersLoveToDance · 04/10/2013 02:01

you refuse to acknowledge the pain that being silenced and mocked as you have done can cause

Silenced and mocked by me? Seriously? Who have I mocked in relation to their race?

AmberLeaf · 04/10/2013 02:05

What calls of fucking racism?

There has BEEN no racism on this thread

What I actually said was;

cliches that I have heard soo many times from people trying to silence calls of racism

I am saying that everything you said that I highlighted in my post above, are pretty much word for word what I have heard a hundred times from people who attempt to minimise racism/experiences of racism.

I am telling you how your words are coming across.

SugarHut · 04/10/2013 02:08

Gangsters, I have to say, you haven't done a thing. Some people's interpretations of what you say are rather extreme, and not at all the point that I clearly see you are trying to make.

You are being rational, debating, enquiring, and essentially just getting quite ridiculous responses now. Take it from me, you haven't been racist in any shape at all.

Yellow Dinosaur puts it perfectly. "I still don't think the op was doing anything wrong but this helps me to understand why people with repeated experience of insidious racism might see this as this. Because their background and experience has taught them to expect it so they see it even when it's not intended."

Seen when it's not intended. This whole thread in a nutshell.

I'm off to bed. There is no rational discussion here anymore, and frankly, I'd invite you to do the same as you seem to be a target and it's all rather unkind of people to tar you with something so far from what is clearly the reality.

AmberLeaf · 04/10/2013 02:12

rational, debating, enquiring

Not even a hint of those things in the quotes I highlighted above.

AmberLeaf · 04/10/2013 02:13

While it may not be intended it can be there all the same however uncomfortable that makes some people feel.

GangstersLoveToDance · 04/10/2013 02:15

Cliches that you hear in response to racism? Or do you think maybe these are things people may say to you because of how you come across.

You have attempted prove me a racist over and over on the last X pages. I am NOT a racist. Why exactly are you trying so hard to brand me so? What will you achieve?
You clearly see racism as such a prolific problem, why try and pick on people who are not the enemy?
I see no need to list my black children/brother/nephews/neighbours to you in some unnecessary attempt to validate myself and my views.

You are utterly ridiculous. You do a huge injustice to ANYONE who has ACTUALLY experienced racism.

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy · 04/10/2013 02:15

You have mocked a person's pain in relation to their experiences of racism. Which is related to their race.

Yellow and Sugar Hut - Intention isn't magic, one can intend for it not to hurt if you accidentally step on my foot or drop crap in my milkshake - to borrow two common images - but it still hurts/is gross, not meaning to doesn't make it better. We are in a system that basically expects us to be happy to be reduced solely to the qualifier that is the source of the footstepping/crap milkshakes as well as tells us we should shut up and never get emotional about it because people don't mean it.

I wouldn't be offended if someone referred to me solely by my race, but I wouldn't think they thought very much of me if that's the only thing they can think of even visually + and it would perpetuate a system where some people are reduced solely to that which is used to beat us with. I love my heritage, I just wish the system wasn't built to treat me as an Other for whom my visual heritage presents a template people use. I want to be treated as individually and described as individually as my partner (who is White).

And really, I stopped giving a flying fuck if I appeared rational in race debates a long time ago. I'm allowed to get emotional as an abused woman in an abuse thread, but let me get emotional in a race thread and I'm being ridiculous. Way to support the system of silencing victims.