Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To refer to a black man as a black man

574 replies

ShakeRattleNRoll · 03/10/2013 23:55

The other day i was talking about this black man who lives down the road to a neighbour and she said it was politically incorrect of me to say 'you know that black man who lives there' after I had said it.I thought well i never.What's wrong with calling him a black man when he is a black man? How should have I described him? TYIA

OP posts:
GangstersLoveToDance · 04/10/2013 02:17

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

MistressDeeCee · 04/10/2013 02:17

GangstersLoveToDance 'chip on shoulder' is deemed as a racist comment, intended to minimise the experiences of a person experiencing racism and prejudice. Its why you dont really hear it used any more in the context of racism; its considered very non-pc. I havent heard it for years. I wonder if thats partly why its being said you are 'mocking?'

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy I do understand what you are saying. Its is very true about the 'hurts', although I didnt take offence at the incident Idescribed as I know there was no offence meant. I wouldnt be able to list the numerous times Ive had to deal with racist crap. Far more insidious nowadays..you live it, know it, and deal with it where you can. Its never going to be an equal playing field. Although it most certainly should be.

AmberLeaf · 04/10/2013 02:19

gangsters I said the things you have said make you sound like a racism apologist and that you are minimising peoples experiences of racism.

You said those things, they were clear, not my interpretation at all.

You do a huge injustice to ANYONE who has ACTUALLY experienced racism

You think I haven't?

AmberLeaf · 04/10/2013 02:27

Ive had to move home twice because of racism. police involved in one case.

My son was told it was his fault that someone called him a nigger.

I could go on, but don't think I could stomach being told that it was my fault for how I come across.

Please do forgive my lack of rationality.

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy · 04/10/2013 02:32

Gangster, Amberleaf is not doing a disservice. You are doing a disservice as an ally but not acknowledging your privilege and lack of perspective in this discussion. I recommend books on John Brown, work by Jane Elliot, and the text 'unpacking the white knapsack'. Allies are not just people claiming not to be the enemy, anyone can do that - anyone can claim that they aren't "like that", it's people who work in solidarity and promote the voices of victims of oppression.

Victims speaking out about racism never does a disservice. Getting emotional about pain does not do a disservice. We are human, we are allowed to hurt and complain, and if it makes you uncomfortable to know that people similar to yourself why don't you take it up with yours rather than telling victims that we need to be more rational about the pain in our lives that the system was built to cause. The system of oppressions wants victims to be silent and deal nobly with our issues, it's how the system was set up to be able to keep running. Silence has never won anyone anything. I stand in solidarity with those who want to speak out not those who want us quiet and rational and only communicating in particular means that make others comfortable.

DropYourSword · 04/10/2013 03:26

Not read the thread, but it totally depends on context to me.

If you were trying to distinguish any person from a crowd you would use whatever description clue you could to make our quicker and easier, i.e. the blond man, the tall man, the woman with glasses, the woman smoking etc. If you were talking about a white man in a group of black men then it would be logical to point that out as the quickest way to differentiate who you mean and vice versa.

It's not really acceptable however, in my opinion, to add in black white or whatever else if it's not really needed. The man at number 72 is all that's required it'd there's only one man living there. Otherwise you are then pigeon holing people. If it doesn't add anything to the conversation, ie the blond man at number 72, or the man who smokes at number 72, then I think it's completely unnecessary and could be seen as discriminatory.

Opalite · 04/10/2013 14:32

I am surprised by a few of the attitudes on this thread. Some of what has been said just screams victim blaming. When racism is still a huge issue it's very damaging to try and minimise it or not to treat it seriously. People who experience racism are being silenced by comments such as 'PC gone mad'.

Saying 'I hate black people' isn't the only way to be racist, like saying 'I hate women' isn't the only way to be sexist and I think we all know that.

Yellow it's great that your brother didn't mind always being described as 'the black boy' but a lot of the time people don't want to just be seen for the colour of their skin. Don't we all know that? I hear people described as 'that black woman' ALL THE TIME unnecessarily and actually 'that white woman' doesn't really come up much... Even in groups where there is only one white person. Not everything can just be reversed like that.. and because of the serious issue of racism against black people, reversing it isn't the same and shouldn't really be compared in my opinion.

Feminine · 04/10/2013 15:03

I think its lazy to describe someone by their skin colour.

There are so many other descriptive words.

as a white woman , I'm sure I've never been described as just that -wouldn't help would it?

So, friends etc...have had to find other ways.

How hard can it be?

Kendodd · 04/10/2013 15:39

I have read the whole thread, and I'm a bit shocked that some think that to refer to somebodies skin colour is racist when that are the only person with that skin colour around. I have been in lots of situations where I have been the only white and have been referred to as such, in friendly/unfriendly/indifferent ways depending on the context. I have been annoyed when people have sucked teeth at me, that I shouldn't be there (night club, only white person) but I didn't mind being stared at, because I did stand out.

Anyway, I have always thought in a situation like the op describes avoiding using the term 'black' is more racist because there's nothing wrong with being black so why wouldn't you use it. A friend who used to work at SS told me that she wasn't allowed to say 'black coffee' or 'black board' because it was offensive, this was years ago though, I can't imagine they still do that, I thought this was ridiculous, and besides she said they replaced the black boards with white boards.

I now live in Devon, so very white English around here, which may colour my view but I'm really trying to see your point Amber I will re-read and think but to be honest I don't think I would want to stop describing the only black person in the street as black to somebody who didn't know him because it's just easy. Maybe that's very lazy of me, maybe it's even racist of me?

I do think however good our intentions we can all be racist in ways we don't realise (including you Amber) I don't think the OP was though... will think some more.

TheFabulousIdiot · 04/10/2013 15:42

it's absolutely fine to call someone black when identifying them but if there are other ways to identify them like 'the man who lives there' (presumably she knew who you meant?) then you should choose that.

if he has lived in your street for years didn't you know his name, didn't she know?

LifeofPo · 04/10/2013 15:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CarlaBrooni · 04/10/2013 15:53

I lived in India for a few years up till 3 years ago.

I was called "the white lady".

I think there are a lot of people looking for problems when there are not.

I loved my time in India and all the lovely black and brown people that were and are still my friends.

LaGuardia · 04/10/2013 15:53

Oh god. Aren't there any black people on here who can give Middle England a heads up, please? The white people are drowning in political correctness.

midlandslurker · 04/10/2013 16:11

My Co worker is Black, I'm white,we are both female,we do the same job and are the sole workers in our area.

When differentiating between ourselves via a third party she'll ask whether it " was the black or white lady that you spoke to ?" and I'll do likewise.

Neither of us have felt the need to be offended by being defined by our race..........................

comingalongnicely · 04/10/2013 16:25

Someone had better tell the "Association of Black Police Officers" they need to order new stationary then....

Nothing wrong with it at all, same as if you'd said the "Spanish Bloke" or the "Chap with the grey beard".

People seem so desperate to feel offended on behalf of others nowadays...

HeroineChick · 04/10/2013 16:28

"LaGuardia Fri 04-Oct-13 15:53:38
Oh god. Aren't there any black people on here who can give Middle England a heads up, please? The white people are drowning in political correctness."

THIS

THIS

A thousand times this

LifeofPo · 04/10/2013 16:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Malaia · 04/10/2013 16:33

The short answer is that some people don't care, some people will find it racist if you go to lengths to describe them another way and some people will find it racist if you do describe them as black. There isn't going to be an answer everyone agrees with.

I loathe all these Americanisms like 'ally' though.

PatioDweller · 04/10/2013 16:36

I think the problem here is that Amber is referring to racism in general and Gangsters is talking specifically about this thread.

I haven't seen anywhere that either Gangsters or anyone else has been racist on this threat therefore when she is talking about 'chip on the shoulder' it is with reference to her assumption that Amber is being offended by the OP's use of the term black to describe her neighbour.

Whereas for Amber, this is probably a term she has heard used in many previous occasions when there has been a racial undertone to a comment.

As a white woman is may well be difficult for me to understand that some comments set off a spark of rage or anxiety because you have heard then time and again. However, without trying to belittle the effects of racism (especially less overt forms which IMO are the worst) I think Amber and others need to see it from the point of view of a white non-racist woman who rather than thinking 'oh sometimes nasty people actually say that when they mean this' is actually genuinely only thinking 'what is wrong with using a physical description of someone in order to clearly identify them.

ruddynorah · 04/10/2013 16:36

Yes, ask him. I expect he'd like to be called Steve at number 26, or whatever.

An ex boyfriend of mine said he was worried about how to introduce me to people (we'd had a conversation where I explained half caste is derogatory) as I'm half white and half north african. I said well maybe just introduce me as 'ruddynorah.'

curlew · 04/10/2013 16:39

Well. If the black man concerned had lived in my street for 20 years and I was giving him a present, I would probably call him John. Or Joe. Or whatever his name was.

Otherwise, if his colour was relevant, I would refer to it.
If it wasn't. I wouldn't.

curlew · 04/10/2013 16:43

Well. If the black man concerned had lived in my street for 20 years and I was giving him a present, I would probably call him John. Or Joe. Or whatever his name was.

Otherwise, if his colour was relevant, I would refer to it.
If it wasn't. I wouldn't.

MrsDeVere · 04/10/2013 16:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LazyGaga · 04/10/2013 17:05

Why why why did you make reference to the size of his cock near the beginning of the thread?!!

Had to come and ask even though I still have yet to read the rest of it. Apols if it's already been covered.

Malaia · 04/10/2013 17:07

I wouldn't describe a child by ethnicity, and I can't really explain why. It's just something about children's sense of self and singling kids out from their peers.

Swipe left for the next trending thread