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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To refer to a black man as a black man

574 replies

ShakeRattleNRoll · 03/10/2013 23:55

The other day i was talking about this black man who lives down the road to a neighbour and she said it was politically incorrect of me to say 'you know that black man who lives there' after I had said it.I thought well i never.What's wrong with calling him a black man when he is a black man? How should have I described him? TYIA

OP posts:
TrucksAndDinosaurs · 04/10/2013 01:16

I worked in a large office team once which included one black bloke and sometimes a courier would come up with a package to be signed for and say 'package for J Smith, which one is he?'

And people would tie themselves in knots saying 'over there in the corner with the blue shirt, no not him the other corner with a postcard of a dog, no, not that one, he's got a green rucksack hanging off the back of his chair, no, over here, I'll show you...'

And J Smith would shout 'me! They mean me! ^The BLACK man!'

It was pretty silly.

GangstersLoveToDance · 04/10/2013 01:16

However, in the society we live in where White people are able to be treated as default and raceless

My definition of 'default' would be 'usual'?

In that case, white people are the 'default' race in our society - assuming you mean UK/other European/western society.

Serendipity30 · 04/10/2013 01:17

Gangsterlovetodance just because something is not overt , does not mean it does not exist. These days if a black person says they have experienced racism or prejudice they are told they are overreacting or reading to much into things.

SugarHut · 04/10/2013 01:17

Gangster is speaking a lot of sense.

YellowDinosaur · 04/10/2013 01:19

Excellent post by sugarhut.

And I do take your point spork. But as mardybra says as women we are in a position to understand being on the receiving end of discrimination, I used this comparison in an earlier post also. I'm happy to be identified as 'the woman' in my male dominated work place without taking offence where none is meant.

AmberLeaf · 04/10/2013 01:19

Some people love to be offended. They love to try to take the moral high ground. They will grasp at any subject and try to turn it around/deliberately misunderstand things for absolutely no reason

Yep and some people just have real life experience of racism and racism apologists.

Personally I find people that try to minimise the effects of racism worse than an ignorant racist, those that try to minimise have put thought into their argument, which to me makes it worse.

Serendipity30 · 04/10/2013 01:21

Im sorry but are you comparing womens rights to racism?

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy · 04/10/2013 01:21

If men in the room were described with an additional qualifier and I was simply described as the woman (or as DH's partner with no other qualifiers), then I would presume the person cared little for me. That goes back top the whole being treated unequally thing. I don't mind being described by my race, but if I was described only by my race when everyone else was either qualified or unqualified, it marks me out as Other.

And no, I don't like getting offended and taking the moral high ground. Feeling less cared for and othered tends to make me physically very uncomfortable and very anxious.

GangstersLoveToDance · 04/10/2013 01:22

Hakuna - I've never come across a black person saying they've suffered racism and being dismissed.

Any instance of real, actual racism has been dealt with swiftly and not condoned by non-idiots when I have witnessed it.

I understand this may not always be the case. It has been for me...so to state that as 'fact' is not correct in all cases.

AmberLeaf · 04/10/2013 01:22

Im sorry but are you comparing womens rights to racism?

Doesn't that one always get trotted out? Im waiting for someone to mention ginger people.

AmberLeaf · 04/10/2013 01:25

I've never come across a black person saying they've suffered racism and being dismissed

Really?

I have. LOADS.

Often with lines like 'looking to be offended' ' seeing something that isn't there' etc etc.

AmberLeaf · 04/10/2013 01:25

Not forgetting 'chip on shoulder'

GangstersLoveToDance · 04/10/2013 01:26

You are proving my point Amber.

I am not a 'racist-apologiser'. Nor am I trying to minimise the effect of racism.

Your inability to discuss a matter in a sensible manner does nothing for the cause you are apparently trying to champion Hmm

You are over-sensitively jumping at anything someone says who is not quite of your opinion.

Again, I have seen NO racism on this thread. I don't really know what you're referring to.

Serendipity30 · 04/10/2013 01:27

Gangsterlovetodance I accept you may have not had that experience, but others have. I wish it wasnt so though.

AmberLeaf · 04/10/2013 01:28

Your inability to discuss a matter in a sensible manner does nothing for the cause you are apparently trying to champion

That's another one of those cliches.

Serendipity30 · 04/10/2013 01:29

Real actual racism is not always dealt with,unfortunately. A lot of the time it is dismissed or not taken seriously.

Serendipity30 · 04/10/2013 01:30

Amberleaf you sound clear to me?

GangstersLoveToDance · 04/10/2013 01:30

Some clichés are clichés for a reason.

Because there's truth in them.

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy · 04/10/2013 01:30

No I don't mean usual, I mean default. I mean White experiences are held up as the default, the standard, the universal experience that all people can connect and relate to. I meant to relate to the White experience but if I place a Metis character in their place I'm told that "normal" audiences won't be able to connect to that character. When a character is left undescribed (hell half the time when they are) in media, the vast majority will presume that the character is white without identifiers. When a mixed race with white person is put into a story they will likely be imagined or cast as White. White is seen as default, which makes sense seeing as the creation of race as a social concept was designed to make White the standard. But no, I don't mean usual or even typical, I mean used by every manner of system to represent the default universal human. Which is obviously bollocks, but it hasn't been deconstruction yet.

AmberLeaf · 04/10/2013 01:31

Gangsters, I would suggest that you are not as enlightened as you think you are.

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy · 04/10/2013 01:32

No cliches are cliches because people say them all the time. You're basically doing bingo here for people who've faced racism.

AmberLeaf · 04/10/2013 01:32

hakunamatata8 Thank you.

AmberLeaf · 04/10/2013 01:33

Fab posts as ever Sporks.

Serendipity30 · 04/10/2013 01:33

All right folks i'm off to bed, nice talking with you.

GangstersLoveToDance · 04/10/2013 01:34

Oh for Goodness sake. This is more than ridiculous.

WHAT are you on about? Give me an example of racism in this thread.

I honestly have no idea what you're referring to. You are frequently referring to racism, racism apologists.

I am not disputing that they exist. I am saying that I have seen no example HERE. ARE you seeing examples on this thread? Or not?