To refer to a black man as a black man

[ShakeRattleNRoll]

The other day i was talking about this black man who lives down the road to a neighbour and she said it was politically incorrect of me to say 'you know that black man who lives there' after I had said it.I thought well i never.What's wrong with calling him a black man when he is a black man? How should have I described him? TYIA

Seconded

I've read this whole thread (couldn't sleep!!) with interest. I'm a white MC female age 39.
While intellectually I'm not racist, I think my upbringing as a white privileged MC westerner of white privileged MC parents through the 70s and 80s, where I regularly heard racist jokes and absorbed underlying waves of black inferiority and white superiority , does actually mean I must be a bit racist.
I don't think I'm in any position to really objectively decide what is or isn't racist. I certainly don't think I should judge a black or other non-white person for their views on the subject.
I also think white people saying they do understand racism because they have experienced racism from non-white people, or have been described as White is ridiculous.

I had a slight lightbulb moment when I travelled with Korean air as a 20 something. My friend and I were the only non-Korean people on the flight and we just were non-people as far as the flight attendants were concerned. We were bottom of the list of people to attend to and were quite obviously less important than the Korean customers. It gave me a tiny insight into what it must be like to be part of the non-default majority and always just be your racial identity and not just you as a person.

Sorry majority should read minority

helen what have I said that's so outrageous?

Well fifi telling your DS that your DH is made of chocolate is pretty bloody ridiculous!

On the whole many posters pointing out that racism is still alive and well in Britain 2013 have acknowledged that using colour or race as a descriptor when it is the most obvious distinguishing factor is perfectly reasonable. Using it when there is no need is racist but if you'd prefer to couch it in terms that you might understand better - its rude.

Its rude in the same way that if my neighbour described me as "that fat/tall/white/ woman at no 41", rather than just "the woman who lived at no 41".

I hadn't really grasped just how much casual racism there was around until I had a mixed race child. Its heartbreaking when your child tells you at aged 4 - "I want to be lighter, Mummy" and still at nearly 8 needs validation from you that his skin colour is beautiful and his eyes are beautiful. Because whether you accept it or not Fifi even within skin colours there is a pecking order - lighter is "better" in this country and caucasian features likewise. To use your chocolate analogy, white chocolate is top of the heap, milk chocolate middle and dark chocolate bottom.

Luckily for us we go to a very multi-ethnic/colour school so describing someone as "black" really tends not to be very helpful. DS is way better at describing people so I can find them than the majority of people - though "he is the second fastest runner in class" not so helpful.

DP says he's made of chocolate too! I say I have twilight vampire skin I'm so pale, does that mean we're racist towards ourselves? That's just silly. It's just a joke we told DS.

I didn't say I'd use their colour when there's no need. I myself said when the most obvious difference is skin colour then don't be afraid to use it.

Kewcumber - from what I see in the media, 'cafe au lait' seems to be the preferred shade of the moment, not exceedingly pale.

My friends' daughter looks striking pretty and her mum is of African descent and her dad English. She wants to work in television and you can tell she has a good chance because she has a preferred look. Wrong but true.

Skin can look less attractive if it's more pallid or grey looking because it looks less healthy - as though there's less blood flow.

It makes me sad, that people say it is ridiculous to tell a child that their dad is made of chocolate. Surely, it is just a bit of fun, like telling them about father Christmas or the tooth fairy or that there is gold at the end of the rainbow.

Isn't it the kind of thing that binds you as a family and makes you laugh together as the child grows up. "Remember when you still believed daddy was made of chocolate / the tooth fairy gave you money?" That kind of thing.

We let kids believe all sorts of silly things, like that animals can talk (in books and kids films), that a man breaks in on Christmas Eve & gives you gifts, that mummy can kiss the sore knee better. Why is thinking daddy is made of chocolate any different?

cafe au lait isn't exactly the prefered shade - clearly white is (although perhaps not the palest shade of white. Otherwise the airwaves would be stuffed with mixed race characters and presenters as it not difficult to find enough darker skinned people to to present every programme going!

I agree that cafe au lait coloured skin with caucasian features and hair that isn;t "too" afro is deemed attractive but in effect all thats saying is caucasian with a tan is the favoured look.

A 10 yr old boy (with cafe au lait skin) at the tennis club yesterday went to get a water from the bar and was told by the barman "you need to get a haircut" (he had an afro). This kind of negative reinforcement - your natural hair is not acceptable to me, change it into something more "european looking", I thought was really shocking with a young child.

My dad tells DS he has a wooden leg and there are elephants nests in the garden.....

In the office I work in there are two women who job share a role. They are approximately the same height and have exactly the same first name.

It is a source of constant amusement to us when someone comes in wanting to talk to one or the other. When asked which of the "Xs" they need to speak to there is frequently a long and convoluted description of their height, accent, clothing choices etc before one of us will put them out of their misery and ask "the black one or the white one"?

Seriously, it's the most obvious distinguishing characteristic between the two yet people are so embarrassed to mention it that they will go to incredible lengths to avoid using the term.

"I didn't say I'd use their colour when there's no need. I myself said when the most obvious difference is skin colour then don't be afraid to use it."

Which is exactly what every other fucking person on the thread said. Which if you had read it properly you would know..........

If it's what everyone else said.... Why on earth are you shouting at me? If you agree, why are you picking a fight?

Because you are being either wincingly thick or goadily obtuse. Can't decide which.

"If it's what everyone else said.... Why on earth are you shouting at me? If you agree, why are you picking a fight?"

Because you came on here ranting about how everyone was saying it was racist to mention skin colour.....several people told you to read the thread - you said you had, but carried on with the "political correctness gone mad, white people tying themselves up in knots, professionally offended" bullshit and wouldn't listen!

How do the police describe different skin colours for identification purposes?

Who cares?

I didn't say everyone, at no point did I say that. You're cherry picking for an argument and it makes no sense. If we agree but the timing of my post was such that it didn't flow in conversation, just move on.

It is PC crazy talk when you can't say the obvious. With the exception of the most recent black lady, the posters that have got worked up are the white middle class.

Seriously if you think I've not read the thread properly, yet you agree with the sentiment, why the agro? I've been called uneducated, thick, obtuse, had to defend jokes made to DS and told they fear for my unborn children. How nasty can you get?

Was I stupid to believe that MN was made by parents, for parents as a support network? Instead it's playground name calling.

I'm not white, thanks.

Josie1974 & Kewcumber Im reminded theres such a thing as people being open to actually trying to understand - no pointscoring, just able to acknowledge the different life experiences of people of African heritage, particularly children growing up in an unequal society, and do their best to explain and combat negativity they may face

"It is PC crazy talk when you can't say the obvious" Yes, that's what everybody has been saying on the thread. Why not have a read?

With the exception of the most recent black lady, the posters that have got worked up are the white middle class And you know this how?

I really can't be bothered to reply when people on here are no better than school bullies.