Why do you think behaviour in schools is so much worse than even 10 yrs ago.

[soul2000]

This is not a joke thread. I am generally interested as to how much the standard of behaviour has deteriated in the last 25 years since i left school.

What amazes me, is that teachers are not shocked when watching programes like educating yorkshire, that just shows how bad the behaviour of some pupils is.

Another shocking thing is that pupils who in my time would have been labeled a menace "ME INCLUDED" are now seen as upstanding pupils.

How has the standard fallen so far and what can be done to re address the balance.

This thread is in support of teachers.

Oh god. I am so going to regret this.

Standards of behaviour have gone down significantly because approach to child rearing has taught children that they are entltled to behave as they choose. We have moved a million miles beyond teaching children to have self esteem (not much of that around in 50's & 60's classrooms) to the point where they feel entitled to say what they think, and argue with adults in positions of authority on a equal level.
And parents back them all the way.

If x child does something wrong, then lets all have a discussion about why he may be feeling sad today.
Its bollocks.
Look at the outstanding schools. Most of them have zero tolerance for anything other than absolute respect for staff, and toeing the line is a basic.

We need to find the happy medium, but it seems the pendulum is going to swing all the way to the end, before coming back to common sense.

Rant over.

My friends teaching secondary say Educating Yorkshire is an extreme example.

I don't think behaviour has deteriorated. Among the "lower" groups behaviour was appalling when I was at school (gosh) 30 years ago. I went to a rough comp, but was in top sets so largely removed from the worst behaviour, but I have two friends who were in lower sets at the same school who are really quite bitter about the fact that they didn't stand a chance of learning anything. Far more effective discipline policies are in place at my Ds's comp and the primary where I work.

At DS's comp I find that the children are far more supportive of each other's efforts than they ever were at my school - they are proud of each other when they do well, at my school doing well/working hard was a reason for ridicule.

At my school mass "bundles" were commonplace. Unheard of now.

My dad's memories of school, 25 years earlier than mine, are even worse, with bullying rife and ignored/encouraged by adults and a generation of boys who were largely fatherless (away in the war)

Anyone who thinks things have got worse has rose tinted spec IMO

The behaviour I see at my children's (primary) school is at least as good, if not better, than I remember from my own primary days. And I went to a 'naice' school.

My middle school was not nice at all. Very many semi-feral kids. And this was a church school 30 years ago.

Sorry, obviously boys and girls had fathers away in the war, but my dad who lived through it, feels that the discipline, of the boys particularly, suffered enormously for it.

Good point raised on another thread that those of us educated in the seventies were not taught in inclusive classrooms. When I went into teaching I was shocked.

DS has a reading age of thirteen, but an emotional age of two which is why I fought to keep him out of mainstream.

Ahem I left school in 1976.

Every few years since there's always an "outcry" about declining standards of behaviour, usually provoked by a TV show.

Society changes and with every generation, so do children, adults, parenting, education and entertainment.

It's enough to give any decent person extreme anxety - or at the very least a proper fit of the vapours.

He is six, by the way.

As a former teacher I also agree which the other points made about it taking a village. If I had been told off in school I kept it quiet lest I get another bollocking from home! Very different now.

I think you only have to look at the attitude and behaviour of some teachers and you have the answer.

One of the "FUNNIEST" things i every did, was to bring a small radio and stick it in the pocket of my blazer. Inside the blazer i would have a little ear piece,i would sit with my hands over my right ear covering the little ear piece..

One day i got caught listening to wimbeldon by the history teacher, and when i was caught uttered the words "ITS THE FINAL SET LET ME LISTEN TO IT".

The point is despite the rest of the class being in fits of laughter was taken very seriously by the deputy head. I was suspended for 4 days and i had to write a sorry letter to the teacher concerned.

I wonder would the same incident be viewed in the same light or would the radio just be confiscated until the end of the day.

I have to say though looking back it still makes me laugh when i saw the history teachers face.

Because there are no consequences. We removed DD from a top 100 comp for the following reasons:

Assault
Street fighting
Bullying (not against her)
Disruption
Insubordination (calling the Head a "fucking bitch")
Pyromania
Drugs on school premises
Intimidation (pyromania threats posted on facebook).

The head denied there were problems at the school. The shits responsible have had no more than 5 day exclusions. When I was at school they would have been expelled; nowadays the rules have to be differentiated because they are "deprived". Well there are plenty who are deprived who don't behave like that and want to learn and want to make successes of themselves but are held back because they have to conform to the estate norm or because of disruption.

They have had their chance in a top school; they have blown it and need to be removed. There need to be specialist units and there needs to be funding for them. It is not acceptable that girls and boys like that should be allowed to ruin the education and life chances of others.

Thank God we had the money to pull our daughter out because the system and those in it were a disgrace. Any head that says her school has high standards of behaviour when that lot is going on is a liar and I have no respect for those who lie about the basics.

As you were.

To clarify, Starlight, I was shocked at the lack of support the children were given and how LSAs were routinely taken away from those with supposed 1:1 to do group work or make hallway displays for the HT etc

I saw many children let down and didn't want that for my DS even though the LA came mob-handed to say he should be in mainstream because it was cheaper he was academically able.

I got my 90 year old Grandad to write his memoirs a few months back. The stories of him and his friends bundling their teacher and shutting them in a cupboard, bunking off daily to pinch apples from orchards and regularly getting caned by the Deputy Head made me . I've been teaching 10 years in a range of secondary schools and have NEVER seen the likes of what he (and many others) got up to. My Dad was just as bad in the early 60s. I think people always think that 'the world's getting worse' because they cling to nostalgia.

I am going to throw into the mix; "media". Since I started teaching 10 years ago, behaviour has always been an issue. However, recently the influx of smartphones and tablets given to children has been noticeable in its negative effects. Even in the last few weeks of term, I have dealt with pupils who have been staying up late with devices in their room and are exhausted, moody and not coping well.in addition, I have already had to deal with three cases of text and Facebook bullying (in a recent assembly, over three quarters on our Year 7s already had Facebook accounts), all taking place outside of school hours, but having to be dealt with in school. I find it sad that I am seeing children go straight for their phones as soon as they are out of the school gates as they already appear addicted. I'm sure some of the behaviour issues and in turn, academic issues, could be down to addiction of their devices.

I want people like SilverApples teaching my kids.

Actually, I have an excellent job share teaching my dd atm. Seem to really GET partnership working with parents and do what I say when they hit a problem with dd implement ideas to get the best out of dd and share with me theirs (and miraculously, with each other).

I think there is a lot of excusing bad behaviour and entitlement.. A boy in my son's class used to assault physically and racially abuse people and then say it was OK and he couldn't get in trouble as 'he had a behavioural condition'. His mum said the same and he had no punishment at all as the school had a horrible 'no blame' policy where the victim was expected to work with the bully and noone is blamed at all. . In my eyes he still should have been punished like any other pupil for violent outbursts and he shouldn't have been allowed to distrupt every lesson.

The worst behaved kids I know have parents that don't give them consequences for bad behaviour. One boy was seen throwing rocks at a car and his mum just shrugged. Some just don't have time for their kids and let them roam the streets.

Disruptive pupils should go elsewhere and let the well behaved kids learn. .

Educating Yorkshire is pretty mild, compared to what we did at school and how the kids I teach behave at times.

The thing is, when I was at school, if someone told a teacher to fuck off, it was a massive deal and their parents would go spare. A lad in my year was expelled for it. Now, if it happens, parents make excuses. Or tell you to fuck off as well.

One Y10 girl told me her mum didn't dare give her any consequences, like taking her phone away, because she would 'kick off'. I told her I would smash the phone up if she was mine. She said 'But then you would have to buy me a new one' - erm, no. Who's in bloody charge in that house?

wow, so enjoyed Seren's colourful description, sounds amazing .

That said, I went to a rubbishy grammsr in the 80s and there were still a few little madams causing trouble.

My honest view is that teachers put up with crap, keep stum for Ofsted snd to not kick up a fuss/keep their jobs... so now we sow what we have reaped. I know there are other factors though ...

IME years ago, the main "troublemakers" were the kids from the sink estates whose parents didn't care too much about what their kids got up to. In more recent years there are more "middle class" kids who are causing trouble too.

Both parents work. They see little of their kids and don't want to ruin family weekends disciplining them or making them do things they don't want to do. They effectively let them do as they wish to avoid upsetting them, and thus, the kids have little respect for their parents or other adults. They are entitled and used to ruling the roost. These kids are not out and out naughty but they cause low level disruption in the classroom. When there are a few such children, it is difficult to manage in the classroom. It is easier to manage one or two really naughty children than it is, several low level disrupters.

I think that view may be contentious, but ime, that is how it is. Even in "nice schools" there is a lot less respect for adults than there used to be.

Now, if it happens, parents make excuses.

I agree there are too many adults who still think teachers are something to challenge and rebel against, just like they did when they were at school.

gosh what Breewannabe said brilliant, probably v. true.

Disruptive pupils should go elsewhere and let the well behaved kids learn.

There need to be specialist units and there needs to be funding for them. It is not acceptable that girls and boys like that should be allowed to ruin the education and life chances of others.

There's this little thing called inclusion.

www.mumsnet.com/campaigns/this-is-my-child

That's not my experience at all shewhowines. It's a convenient theory which fits our PC times and which I've been guilty of believing in the past, but now I work in a school I'm afraid it is still the traditionally "deprived" children who use most of the deputy head's time on disciplinary matters. There are "neglected" or "spoiled" MC children who are in need of attention, but they are not generally the ones who disrupt the class.

On the whole, I find children to be far more polite/respectful than they were when I was at school