Why do you think behaviour in schools is so much worse than even 10 yrs ago.

[soul2000]

This is not a joke thread. I am generally interested as to how much the standard of behaviour has deteriated in the last 25 years since i left school.

What amazes me, is that teachers are not shocked when watching programes like educating yorkshire, that just shows how bad the behaviour of some pupils is.

Another shocking thing is that pupils who in my time would have been labeled a menace "ME INCLUDED" are now seen as upstanding pupils.

How has the standard fallen so far and what can be done to re address the balance.

This thread is in support of teachers.

I went to a terrible school and left in the 1980's.

I remember one boy being thrown out of a first floor window during an RE lesson, the window wasn't even open. A girl lost an eye in a playground scrap. One lad went to a young offenders institute for stabbing his mother, another girl set fires (once burning down a whole row of buildings). There were many many teenage mums.

Daily running battles with the rival school once memorably involved petrol bombs. We ran wild all over the town at lunchtime and ate chips from the chippy every day, smoked and drank cider. Kids brought dogs to school and left them tethered to railings or wandering around the playground. A few lads tuned up every day on motorbikes, unlicensed and with no helmets......

By contrast my DC's go to a lovely school, they are polite, no one disrupts lessons, they want to learn.

IME standards have risen.

I left school more than two decades ago. I don't know how representative my school was of others of the time (state comprehensive) and I don't know how representative Educating Yorkshire is of current academies, but they don't seem that different to me.

bigkidsdidit

Also - do parents not realise that we KNOW when they have done their DCs homework? I mean just a few basic questions to the child sorts that out.

What amazes me, is that teachers are not shocked when watching programes like educating yorkshire, that just shows how bad the behaviour of some pupils is.

I suspect it was just as bad in similar schools 10, 15, 20 years ago. It isn't like that in my local comprehensives.

What a strange thread - it feels like two separate threads running concurrently, with neither acknowledging the other...

How about a post that will do for both threads?

Of course behaviour is much worse/about the same/definitely better than it was 20/30/70/3000 years ago. Children are not parented/helicopter parented/parented by feminists. Parents are too involved with/don't care about their children. There is no way to support/punish/discipline/employ children. So you're definitely right, poster A/B/C.

Poltergoose

Off track here but did you watch The Young Ones in the 80's and the episode with hippy Neil? Your name reminds me of it!

I think it's a mix of parenting and teaching.

My mum left teaching about 15 years ago and when she was teaching (in an Inner London primary with SENCO kids etc) it was JUST starting to happen that kids would accuse adults of hitting them etc. THEN you had parents coming up to the school threatening the teachers.

My mum was pleased she got out when she did TBH.

I do sometimes see lackadaisical parenting around - little entitled monsters but then again I also see very polite, well behaved kids too AND parents. I always make the point (sometimes not all adults do this) that if say I've gone in front of a person in a queue etc by mistake then I apologise and/or I thank people if they've helped me. I carry buggies up train station steps regular MissDD martyr me, LOL

BUT with the above - its the pay it forward affect the more politeness and consideration shown generally to parents/kids/old people/disabled whoever etc then it will more likely happen again elsewhere. lead by example. takes off halo

Poltergoose

Neil thinks there is a ghost in the student flat throwing things and he calls it a 'Poltergoose'.

That's all. Back to the thread.

Zero consequences. Children with needs in large classes with no support therefore causing disruption for the rest of the class (no always, just saying, it can be a cause) Children know that their parents won't be bothered and will simply back them up anyway. Parents in on the bounce about the slightest telling off their darling has had. Kids never hearing the word 'no' until they get to school. Then refusing to listen to it.

You only have to watch 3 Day Nanny to get a flavour of some of the little darlings we have to manage alongside 30 others.

oh and my schooling days (1988 is when I left - EEK!) - yes we DID have bullying/expulsions/fights.

A teenage girl I know (found out this years later) was seriously sexually assaulted by boys (not from our school this was girls school) encouraged by a girl/s. she had no choice but to go back but ended up leaving early. the instigators stayed and had little or no action taken against them,

so not much has changed really, I think. Although in our area schools were called academies and there was a hoo-ha about them being better. whether they were or not god only knows, as I'm not a parent.

I was educated at a very similar school in West Yorkshire, around 10 years ago actually. I don't think behaviour is worse. How can you measure 'bad behaviour' in a meaningful, national way to compare trends? It just smacks of Daily Mail-eque bashing of young people. As posters have said up thread, people have always bemoaned about the behaviour of the younger generation. Kids at school today will probably do the same when they get older.

what happened to parenting in the last 20 years that made parents behave worse

Parents now choose to have DCs (mostly) so you are involved from the start with your pfb.

Before reliable contraception DCs happened to you whether you wanted them or not and you didn't feel obliged to provide this perfect life for them, they were left to get on with it, now your pfb etc deserve only the best regardless of you or their actual capabilities/temperament.

Teachers I know think that Educating Yorkshire is mild compared to reality. The major complaints i hear seem to be mimimal powers to deal with very disruptive kids ( in fact some real risks ), mountains of administrivia wasting time and diverting their attention, and mouthy parents having too much influence.

bigkids that doesn't surprise me. Before I went into teaching, I used to employ 18 year olds. The number who would get their mums to ring, about work related issues, was incredible.

bigkids I think parents are having less children. My mother was running around after 3 kids. By the time we got to 16 she was exhausted, and when we went to university my father was very happy to leave us to our own devices to figure it out. I think tuition fees also doesn't help at all. It has been a problem here in the US. You hear parents say, 'We are spending $50k a year for our child to attend xyz. It is my business that they are getting something out of it.'

Here in NJ education has been under the spotlight. There is a lot of teacher bashing. I am not in teaching and have no desire to be. I see a lot of parents siding with their children instead of showing a united front. Our DCs are not in school yet but I won't be siding with my child if they come home with a poor report. I have had bosses that don't like me and I was able to manage it because I had teachers that hated me.

Ocean - you are so right.

and I agree re the 3 day nanny.

How do the parents parent? It seems we have one spectrum who still spank or are nasty and the others who are wimps - see dad on last nights 3 Day Nanny.

serin - a bit extreme but IKWYM re your school! not saying mine was QUITE like that but they were quite extreme sometimes...

Of COURSE behaviour standards have fallen. Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves. This is not from watching Waterloo Road and Educating Yorkshire but from experience teaching.

There are so many factors.

I definitely don't remember primary children having to be restrained when I was in school, in case they hurt themselves or others. Yet this happened on a daily basis in the school I taught in.

Yes I know anecdotes don't equal evidence blah blah blah

My dd has just started secondary. In my opinion behaviour is better then when I went & I went to an all girls convent! Ds primary about the same. I do agree though that parents make a big difference.

Hester - my mum and her friends were teachers. Half of them were getting medically retired 10-15 years ago and more.

If you think they're vipers in MN you should have heard some of the teachers run down and bitch about kids (I used to help/skive off school myself) who were primary school age who were really not that bad and after all were KIDS.

My mum quite rightly said a few teachers should not have been teaching.

and yes the kids were/weren't angels - but half of them - my gosh - inner city London primary in rough area of London, amazing how many survived. (and they did).

Family life has changed. More children spend time in childcare from a younger age so they have to compete for attention. Childcare workers can't discipline them in the way a parent would for fear of complaints etc. Parents feel guilty about not spending enough time with their kids so they let them get away with more.

Not the only factor but think its relevant in some cases.

3littlefrogs has it right.

Waiting for parents to take their seats and stop talking so that we can start the Christmas play is just like waiting for the children to settle down so we can start a lesson.

I also think it comes from the top. Government has no respect for teachers so it can be no surprise that parents, and then children, have none either.

"I definitely don't remember primary children having to be restrained when I was in school, in case they hurt themselves or others. Yet this happened on a daily basis in the school I taught in."

'Troubled' children and those with SN were often educated out of mainstream schools.