Why do you think behaviour in schools is so much worse than even 10 yrs ago.

[soul2000]

This is not a joke thread. I am generally interested as to how much the standard of behaviour has deteriated in the last 25 years since i left school.

What amazes me, is that teachers are not shocked when watching programes like educating yorkshire, that just shows how bad the behaviour of some pupils is.

Another shocking thing is that pupils who in my time would have been labeled a menace "ME INCLUDED" are now seen as upstanding pupils.

How has the standard fallen so far and what can be done to re address the balance.

This thread is in support of teachers.

So judging from what is being said my "Naughty Behaviour" would have resulted in a after school detention at worst and a letter sent home.

Yes but that's my point department. They aren't troublesome enough to be sent to the head. It's just annoying low level stuff. Other kids who could be swayed either way copy the low level stuff. If there are less low level disrupters, those other kids behave well. That's why some classes are much better than others. It depends on the number of low level disrupters.

Unfortunately over the years I have seen an increase in low level disrupters, and hence it is harder to control the classes than it was a few years ago. It is possible but the teachers need to work harder to do it.

I'm not sure much has changed. I went to 3 schools, and one of them was much like serin's (80's)
I remember parents coming up the school to bash teachers because their child had been told off. Then they would take the kid home and bash them.
We still had the cane at one of my schools. It didn't stop fireworks being let off in class, awful bullying, and a culture of brainy children being tormented just for trying to learn.
It really depends on the school, and the culture of the area.
My son's school is on the whole very good. There is a good sense of community, pride in being part of the school, and personal responsibility. Even at a young age, the kids are given "jobs", and expected to take them seriously.
But then, it's a nice (not naice on the whole, just small town, close knit) place to live, and most parents are fairly old school about discipline.
If ds gets in trouble, I tell him that he shouldn't have misbehaved. If he genuinely was in trouble for something he didn't do, I say, "well, that's not exactly fair, but i'm afraid it happens sometimes. The teacher has 29 other kids to see to and can't always know what happened. Just think of it as payback for all the times you got away with stuff you shouldn't have, and move on!"

(I don't mean if he was actually being picked on btw, just if he whinges about something fairly minor).
You can only go by your own experiences really.

I work in a primary, but here everything gets sent to the head. There's a very strict behaviour policy. Children get one warning in class over what might seem quite minor things, poking a neighbour, talking in class, not having their shirt tucked in. After that they're on their way. Nothing that disrupts the rest of the class is allowed to continue for very long.

It wasn't like that when the new head arrived 2 years ago, but it didn't take very long at all before the behaviour improved markedly.

Tethers, mine was the school the local troubled children, went to. Oh not serious cases of course, but we do remember thinking they were naughty at the time. There was a "remedial" class and they came out to mainstream for pe and so on. I still don't remember any restraining though.

I agree that challenging behaviour is now seen much more frequently from "middle class" children as well.

'Triggles inclusion is great insofar as it doesn't mean the educational achievement of the majority is diluted, the safety of the majority is not put in jeopardy and that basic standards can still prevail.'

Inclusion that does any of that, - isn't inclusion.

inclusion is great insofar as it doesn't mean the educational achievement of the majority is diluted, the safety of the majority is not put in jeopardy and that basic standards can still prevail.

So you're "okay" with inclusion as long as it doesn't inconvenience anyone? How tolerant of you.

'I'm afraid I didn't want my dd to have to co-exist with the immoral, the dysfunctional, the violent and the downright disruptive in the name of inclusion.'

What about in the name of tolerance then, support, funding, understanding, provision, training, education...................

I'm afraid I didn't want my dd to have to co-exist with the immoral, the dysfunctional, the violent and the downright disruptive in the name of inclusion. My dd and her life chances mean far more to me than that.

I'd start letting her grow her hair very long now then.....

I don't believe standards have fallen uniformly.

In DC's school they seem to have a strong behaviour policy, but also a good sense of community and ownership. They don't fuss hugely about uniform etc but there is an expectation that the children are there to learn.

One my mum friends who is a teacher at another school in a different catchment remarked on how the children came into assembly. It's a small thing but it seemed significant. She was surprised at how quiet and calm they were.

I left school 16 years ago. I went to a very well regarded comprehensive. Nothing on educating Yorkshire has shocked me. I was myself a fairly badly behaved pupil, so I don't think your OP is correct.

Inclusion is great insofar as it does not risk the education and safety of others.

Argue about the point Triggles but do not infer that my dd is a troll. That is despicable and sums your attitudes up rather well.

Starlight Mackenzie appears to have the gist of the argument. You know, inclusion for as long as it is not to the detriment of everybody else. What is that you don't understand about that?

The rate of decline of behaviour is pretty much on a par with the rate of decline in literacy standards, soul2000

a troll??? um.. hello? Think Rapunzel in a tower. Good lord, at least get the reference before you lose grip.

i left school 14 years ago. i don't think behaviour is that much worse. take off the rose-tinted specs, OP.

i can remembet kids swearing & throwing chairs at teachers, people giving each other hand-jobs under the desk & worse in the toilets. people smoking wherever they thought they could get away with it & arranging drug-deals with each other. Quite a few girls stumbling around high on god knows what & others disappearing for weeks on end to have abortions.

not exactly the good ole days of the late 90s.

appears to have the gist of the argument. You know, inclusion for as long as it is not to the detriment of everybody else. What is that you don't understand about that?

really... and who gets to decide when it's a detriment to everybody else? Because I find new threads every single day on MN from posters complaining about children with behaviour problems or SENs or SNs that are disruptive. If they had their way, all these children would be shipped off to seclusion away from the .. how was it put on another thread... "non-normative" children.

shewhowines

I think this is what is happening at DS1s school. Lots of low level stuff, many DCs joining in. Children like mine suffering in silence and pissed off by the noise and the shouting. It worries me. I want him to do well because of school not despite it.

I'm not sure I said that, but much of what is dressed up as inclusion really isn't and sets up failure and disruption where it needn't exist.

Want, why can't you have specialist help IN a general class?

Lack of any sanctions for teachers to take against disruptive pupils, "inclusion" policies and parents who come storming up to school defending their offspring, regardless of what they have done.

I've been teaching 30 years and there has definitely been a decline.

'The same rules regarding behaviour should apply at school.'

Absolutely, so no going down slides, or playing with dolls, and absolutely NO scootering!!!!

Indeed and it shouldn't have been my child who had to leave the school. It should have been those who had assaulted and intimidated and disrupted and told the head she was a fucking bitch. No?