Why do you think behaviour in schools is so much worse than even 10 yrs ago.

[soul2000]

This is not a joke thread. I am generally interested as to how much the standard of behaviour has deteriated in the last 25 years since i left school.

What amazes me, is that teachers are not shocked when watching programes like educating yorkshire, that just shows how bad the behaviour of some pupils is.

Another shocking thing is that pupils who in my time would have been labeled a menace "ME INCLUDED" are now seen as upstanding pupils.

How has the standard fallen so far and what can be done to re address the balance.

This thread is in support of teachers.

Generally SN refers to children with disabilities. Yes, he obviously has dome issues but it might just be that he is going through difficult times at home. This isn't what is generally referred to as having special needs in the same sense as a child with autism etc. SEN is slightly different in context too to SN.

Thank you for acknowledging that, Isabelle.

"Unusually unsympathetic"

Wow. Which is why I'm up at this hour worrying about the child and what happens to him when he got home. It is a very deprived area.

My son has SN, btw.

The problem with Special Schools is that they are told to group children according to age and not stage of learning. So you get kids with a mental age of 6 months alongside others who are junior school standard, in tiny groups, so the effects are very pronounced. That's always going to cause educational issues, I reckon.

Sprinkles, the head teacher needs to contact the Ed Psych about that boy and demand a review.

'Add message | Report | Message poster BoffinMum Tue 08-Oct-13 06:03:00
Sprinkles, the head teacher needs to contact the Ed Psych about that boy and demand a review.'

And then pay for it from funds allocated for a new football goal to benefit ALL the children not just one.

I love the way the idea of 'special schools' is bandied around as though they are on every corner and suitable for all
I would love my DD to be in an appropriate school for her
We live in a semi rural area and the facilities are just not there
There is a school for SLD 35 minutes away
My DD has FASD, is above average intelligence and has very challenging behaviour
She is in a class of 30 with 1.1 support
I would love school to have less pressure from the curriculum and spend more time on other life skills
She cant cope in such a demanding environment
For those parents who think she should not be in mainstream, where would she go
A LD school is not what she needs

Coming from the other side

I think if it's awful to talk of kids with SN holding NT kids back in mainstream we shouldn't talk of kids with LDs holding others back in SS

Although of course ideally all kids would be in correct setting

bramble I know but I felt sorry for sparkles. if she ia a ta then she is probably not on a fantastic salary and being hurt by a dc whatever their need is not acceptable.

would the ofsted inspector or Michael Gove put up with it if he were with the child?

we are in a similar situation re schools, ok for primary as we have a mainstream infants with a special learning unit for complex and severe needs - with the children spending time in both the unit and ms, at the end of our road. Hopefully he will get a place here - although they only take 8 children a year, so it is not guaranteed. If he fails to get in then the nearest special school is 35 miles away or he would have to attend the ms but with full time 1-1 support.

When he gets to junior age, we will be in the same dilemma again. The nearest secondary special school is for children with autism (and whilst ds has sensory issues, no speech and social communication difficulties - he is not autistic).

We have struggled enough with preschool, let alone the rocky road through infants, junior and secondary.

With a lack of suitable places for each childs individual needs, what else can people do but send them to the best they can, with as much support as they can muster?

alemci

would the ofsted inspector or Michael Gove put up with it if he were with the child?

It is not a case of whether someone has to spend time "with the child". Children should not have to be segregated from society. It is a case of this child's needs clearly not being met and as a result his behaviour is suffering, which in turn means Spinkles suffers. Terrible all round.

Roadwalker - totally agree with you about lack of special schools. My children are very academic but do not cope with mainstream (or mainstream with them). We have to choose secondaries by the end of the month and there is literally nowhere in the LEA that can cope with BOTH their academic and behavioural needs.

Spinkle - please see my essay post many pages back in this thread (Fri 04-Oct-13 13:22:54 page 12) for what a difference two different teachers can make in a similar situation. You have the social skills to ask and insist on help in dealing with this child. The child is asking for help in the only way he knows how by behaving badly - if this gets him what he wants i.e. out of the classroom and home then he is going to continue to behave just like that!

Starlight, in this case, the school has a legal obligation to make reasonable adjustments for this child under the DDA, and if that means paying £400 for an EdPsych appointment to stop him beating up the TA, and being able to access education properly, then so be it.

In budgetary terms, there will most likely be something like £10-12,000 additional funding allocated for him, to enable things like this. The school needs to spend that money on what it was meant for, in a responsive fashion, not sticking as much as possible into general expenditure and hoping the problem can be dealt cheaply with by one pioneering TA on a mission (not that I am saying the school is doing this necessarily, but it does happen).

Let the parents have a whip around for playground or general sports equipment if they think the school needs more. It's hardly a priority when there's someone in the school who has a clear need of this magnitude and problems accessing any education at all. And it is not grounds for pilfering this boy's SEN budget.

Fanjo

*Coming from the other side

I think if it's awful to talk of kids with SN holding NT kids back in mainstream we shouldn't talk of kids with LDs holding others back in SS

Although of course ideally all kids would be in correct setting*

Absolutely. If differentiation is not adequately managed children who have attained more academically could be described holding back those who have attained less.

Except they don't really. No child prevents another child's learning. It is the adult(s) who are supposed to be in charge and managing the teaching and learning. It is the adult(s) who are meant to have control concerning learning environment and make it conducive to learning.

People need to stop blaming the children. Yes, they have to want to learn but adults need to instil that love of learning into them and in some cases we are talking about very young children. IMO punishing children for their learning needs, by only ever imposing sanctions or isolating them, instead of meeting their learning needs, just makes children build up negative associations of school.

Boffin

And it is not grounds for pilfering this boy's SEN budget.

Have you read this thread?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1862438-Teachers-do-not-adhere-to-Statemented-1-to-1-support-do-not-believe-in-sub-levels-make-APP-assessments-up-How-much-of-what-parents-are-told-by-schools-about-teaching-is-a-box-ticking-exercise

Yes Bramble.

I just realised I have been fighting on this thread and others against people moaning about their NT children having to be in classes with children with SN, and then people were moaning abut their HF children being brought down by more low functioning children like mine.

It hurt equally as much.

Thanks for acknowledging my post. I should probably hide this thread as it is a bit painful for me :)

'Starlight, in this case, the school has a legal obligation to make reasonable adjustments for this child under the DDA, and if that means paying £400 for an EdPsych appointment to stop him beating up the TA, and being able to access education properly, then so be it.'

Yes. In an ideal world. But who can make a school do this?

"...I have the heart and stomach of a king."—Elizabeth I

You have to channel this sometimes...

'In budgetary terms, there will most likely be something like £10-12,000 additional funding allocated for him, to enable things like this.'

Not for him. It isn't ringfenced. It arrives as the whole school budget which for some schools has been cut in overall terms. The HT wants a vegetable garden to attract the middle-class tutored kids.

Fanjo I haven't read that (though not saying it isn't here). I read that special schools as they currently exist are not meeting the needs of many children, particularly their academic needs.

I would never accuse any child of scuppering my own child's chances, only the organisation and opportunities presented by the adults charged with and PAID to ensure that doesn't happen. That can extend to ensuring that children with communication deficits are given practice opportunities with typically developing peers and is probably the most quoted reason for LA's refusing SS placements to children (though failing to realise that if simple emersion with NT children would solve their communication difficulties, they wouldn't actually HAVE communication difficulties).

Thanks. I am probably rather sensitive on this issue, like people are when people complain about the kids with SN in their class, so thanks for explaining :)

probably doesnt help that my DD doesnt really have academic needs and is happy with a ball pit!