To wonder why people feel so entitled to foreign holidays...?

[CaptainBinker]

Ok firstly - yes this is about term time holidays.

I work as a teacher (as does DH) and therefore am never able to take holidays in term time. I fully believe that the biggest issues causing people to go on holiday in term time are greedy holiday companies and things like work rotas and can understand how people get really angry when there are such huge differences in price because of these factors.

However...we've not had a foreign holiday for 3 years because we cannot afford to go. And I can honestly say that I'm not feeling like I've missed out on anything that I should have had, the fact is that we couldn't afford it so we had cheaper days out close to home instead.

Like I said I totally agree that forcing families to pay loads extra for travel/accommodation in school hols is wrong. But AIBU to get annoyed at the people who feel that they are "entitled" to a foreign holiday every year and get really angry when they either have to scale back to a holiday in their home country or go in term time and get hassle from the school?

I guess I was brought up with the mindset of "if you can't afford it, you save up and wait until you can". Plus I had lots of nice holidays before I started working as a teacher and had DD; one of the things I knew I'd be losing when I decided to take that job and have a baby was yearly foreign holidays as we wouldn't be able to afford them. I knowingly made that choice.

Quite happy to be told IABU, just wondered what people's thoughts were...

But surely they CAN afford it, just not when the prices are hiked up by the travel companies. Personally, I would rather spend a week during term time, splashing around in the ocean with my kids than a week on a wet beach in Wales at the height of August.

Although I don't live in the UK so it's all a bit of a moot point for me!

LRD if you read my later posts you'll see that I really am a bit odd in that I really don't feel that need for holidays...if I have a spare bit of cash I'd rather overpay the mortgage or something like that, I know, I'm weird!

The school I work in is hard to describe. It's in a pretty affluent suburb of an average city, the main issue is that most pupils' parents at the school are pretty well off but maybe not quite as well off as they'd like to be if that makes sense?! So they can all afford term time foreign hols and it's really competitive amongst parents who can have the best/longest/sunniest hols but they are not quite at the stage where they could afford foreign hols in school holidays every year...but they think nothing of missing exams and giving their kids permission to have days off to get a spray tan which then means they can't do PE for the next month as it'll make the tan run...I kid ye not, this actually happened. On GCSE PE moderation day!!

We have a very special catchment area

We can holiday for cheaper abroad compared to what it costs other people to holiday in Butlins (which is no-go area for us). Speaking/understanding other languages is great, because you can book via foreign travel companies that may not have holidays at the same time as the UK.

We therefore feel entitled to get away from the UK whenever we can...

I see your point about term time holidays. It's unfair though when you have a job when you're pretty much told when you can have your holidays, my dad is ex-army and it was a case of requesting leave during school holidays but pot luck if you got it or not. DH works for a small company and if everyone with school age children took time off in school holidays the company couldn't run.

How us it fair to effectively punish working parents in these circumstances by not allowing them to go on holiday with money they've worked bloody hard for just because they can't get time off in school holidays?

It's not just foreign holidays that cost more. We can't afford foreign holidays at all, the passports alone are prohibitively expensive.

We saved for over a year for a week in a caravan on the coast last summer before our eldest started school. We booked for the last week of the summer term it was just over £500 for all of us, the week after was £1500 for the same caravan. It's insane. Instead of fining parents for trying to give their children nice memories, the government should make it illegal for holiday companies to almost triple their prices just because its school holidays.

Teachers don't have 13 weeks holiday. They work outside of school for a huge amount of that. And no, I'm not a teacher.

"My issue is with those who want to sit next to a hotel pool for a fortnight and top up their tan, not those who visit family."

Why would you have an issue with that? My DH works long hours, brings work home, travels a lot for work so why shouldn't he have a fortnight reading a book by a Spanish pool, swimming with Dd and enjoying a beer without having to check his phone/emails? We can afford to go during school holidays but if we couldn't then I'd gladly take Dd out during term time so that we could have a holiday.

I value her education but there's more to life than school.

well, so what if people like to travel abroad? it's not entitlement to value having a holiday with your family. If it can be in another country all the better IMO. it's great to expose your children to the wider world and excellent bonding for a family to step out if their usual space.

holidays for my family meant a closeness and focus of time together that was very special. time with your children is precious enough to prioritize having one every year even if they all can't be out of country. it's not like you have endless years stretched out before you to have family holidays.

people work hard...I don't begrudge them wanting a freaking holiday with their kids every year if they can possibly swing it.

As for the timing! I can't blame people for resisting being financially raped over the coals at school holiday time (when it's also a sweltering zoo everywhere) in favour of some flexibility.

I don't know how entitled comes into it. It's much cheaper to go during term time, so people go. I've done it a couple of times before because frankly I don't think an average child in reception, year 1/2/3 is going to fall behind from missing a week of school. Moreover I do a lot of extension work at home with my kids; I know what they're doing at school and build on it at home, so I would know if they were falling behind.

My oldest is now in year six and I don't think we would do it at this point.

And, as said: travel can be an education.

As for "I just got back from Greece" - that's just bad manners.

I think that foreign holidays do allow people to "switch off" quicker than fraying at home or uk holidays. The whole airport routine and new language, food, currency makes home problems seem easier to forget temporarily.

As a teacher (and her dh) the OP is able to 'decompress' gradually over the school holidays and recharge but for families who only get one week together in the summer the foreign hol is a short-cut. You don't really recharge, just put life on hold for a week.

Personally we try not to get into that situation by working on our work/life balance through the year and taking lots of weekends away together.

The last time I holidayed at home I spent more money camping in Kerry in the pissing rain in August, than I did going to Turkey for a week the previous year in the first week of September. Never again! So we holidayed abroad every other year, and in the interim just went for cheapo groupon deals instead, and camping if the rain stopped.

None of this applies any more now I live in Oz, so it's Ningaloo reef or Bali for me next year. Although I have already taken my son out of school for a long weekend camping in Margaret River wine valley, teacher asked if he could come too!

Crowler I think the reason I used the word "entitled" is that for these people, the yearly foreign holiday is literally above everything else, whether it be school, exams etc. Absolutely everything. Children have missed half their maths GCSE and ended up not getting the C they needed to go onto their preferred college course for the next year, having to resit and "waste" a year just for the sake of a cheap week in the sun that their parents thought they couldn't miss.

I think the more I read, the more I'm realising that the exact issue I'm talking about is pretty confined to where I work as I find myself agreeing with what people are saying and I'm yet to come across anyone who has made such huge educational sacrifices as the parents from our area, just for the sake of their yearly holiday. We have had children in hysterics, begging their parents not to go because of what they'll miss but the parents will not consider it :(

I think you're being arsey with your comment re sitting by a pool isn't quite as worthy as visiting family. There aren't levels of holiday.

My husband can't take holiday in July at all and August is obviously then a mad scramble.

Like I said before, when I made the choice to have my DD, the fact that I'd have to stop going on "big" holidays was something I acknowledged would happen and in my head, having DD and intending to send her to school when she's old enough has meant that I've made a commitment to her education which I plan to keep.

I accept that for me, that probably means stopping foreign hols earlier than others because of the added complication of my job but like I said, I made that choice when having DD. I think it just bugs me that people think that by going on term time hols it means they can have it all but sometimes from what I've seen, it's the kids who are making the sacrifices and it's not fair on them.

I agree with you op. And have made similar choices as you, in terms of educating myself, travelling and then decide on kids. Unfortunately not many share that.

YABU

Foreign travel isn't an entitilement, no, but it's certainly an incredibly valuable experience. I didn't get to go abroad until I was 19 and that's not something I wanted for my children.

Plus, I see being a teacher as one of the massive plus points about foreign travel. Yes, it's more expensive but you can go away for so long and, comparitively speaking, it doesn't make it that much more expensive as the main cost is flights.

If, as a teacher with a partner, you can't afford foreign travel then you must be prioritising elsewhere. Maybe you own your home, live in an expnsive area, buy new things or something like that. I am a single mum teacher and take my children abroad (usually to South America) for the majority of each Summer holiday on a serious shoestring (cheapest backpackers hostels etc). It would be cheaper in termtime and I make big cutbacks in other areas but how many other professions can take off with their families for 5 weeks at a time?!

Well you might not be allowed term time off but what about the 1000s of people who arent allowed school holidays off. Not justvto go abroad, but to have a day off at all? They wont be getting your high wage either

Again, this may be our particular school but in my experience, the majority of pupils who go and visit family are always those who ask for the work they will miss and come back telling us about the amazing things they visited and the lovely times they had as a family.

The ones who do not go to visit family tend to be missing for the first 2 weeks of term, come back all relaxed (which is great) but then seem to find it hard to actually knuckle down and get back into the swing of school and pretty much downright refuse to catch up on missed work. They become a nightmare to help to catch up, especially in GCSE years where things can move really fast.

Like I said - there are exceptions, but that is what happens with the vast majority of them, and I think our school is pretty unique in having this issue...

Your catchment area demographic sounds unique OP, people missing GCSEs for holidays and spray tans aren't usual

I fancied a med cruise and our kids fancied a canal boat cruise one year, so we priced both holidays. Once we factored in all the extra costs that would be incurred with the canal boat cruise (plus I would have to plan, prepare and cook meals and clean) it actually only cost a little bit more to go on the two week cruise to the med for the four of us. I couldn't believe it.

Sometimes it can be cheaper to go foreign, with the advantage of guaranteed good weather.

I agree with captain blinker - going on a foreign holiday every year is not a necessity - some people thinks its nice, but it's a luxury not an essential.
I have learned from reading similar threads before that there are some people who believe that they NEED a foreign holiday to recharge their batteries, enjoy quality time with their children and give their children cultural experiences.
Go back a few decades and a lot of families could not afford foreign holidays at any time of the year, yet families still enjoyed quality time together, children had cultural learning experiences and families were as happy as they are today.

I work for an emergency service and we have a ban on leave for the whole of the summer next year because of the commonwealth games (I'm in Scotland). Because of this, if we take the kids out of school it won't be unauthorised, but due to the stage of school they're at- I have one finishing primary school and 1 in the thick of exams, I won't take them out of school for a holiday as they'll miss too much, both socially and academically. God knows what we're going to do though as I'm damn sure I 'm having my 2 week dose of vitamin D!!

Oh and for those who have commented on our income and what we choose to spend it on...how dare you?! I've said we cannot afford it, why can people not just accept that? Just because we're teachers, we must be loaded and therefore rubbish with money?!

If you must know, MIL is very ill with a degenerative disease. We'd just bought a house not long before her diagnosis but because of weird circumstances on her part she was basically entitled to pretty much no financial help to pay for the care she needs. So yes we sold up and now have a big house - we had to get one adapted for wheelchairs because she's now using one. We had to sell the old one with negative equity which wiped out our savings. And a huge chunk of our wages goes on the carers who look after her because the stupid council think that because her twunt of a not-quite-ex-husband who has loads of cash should pay and he's refusing.

So yes, my "lifestyle" is expensive. We have a horrendous mortgage and care costs which are unavoidable.

Can we leave my finances out of it now?!

Oh and the hysterics over a holiday - yes it happened, it was the girl who missed her maths exam - she knew that holiday would put her behind a year as she couldn't get to college without a C, which she didn't get with half the exam missing.

I agree with you OP, and I love foreign holidays. I think they have a lot of value and can be beneficial for children, but I wouldn't take my children out of school for one. It's just not an option for us because I don't think you can pick and choose when you want to go to school.

I agree that it's better to save and go on holiday less frequently if you can't afford to go in school holidays.

I think there is a huge misconception that foreign holidays are a luxury, they are very often cheaper than the UK equivalents, with better weather.