To wonder why people feel so entitled to foreign holidays...?

[CaptainBinker]

Ok firstly - yes this is about term time holidays.

I work as a teacher (as does DH) and therefore am never able to take holidays in term time. I fully believe that the biggest issues causing people to go on holiday in term time are greedy holiday companies and things like work rotas and can understand how people get really angry when there are such huge differences in price because of these factors.

However...we've not had a foreign holiday for 3 years because we cannot afford to go. And I can honestly say that I'm not feeling like I've missed out on anything that I should have had, the fact is that we couldn't afford it so we had cheaper days out close to home instead.

Like I said I totally agree that forcing families to pay loads extra for travel/accommodation in school hols is wrong. But AIBU to get annoyed at the people who feel that they are "entitled" to a foreign holiday every year and get really angry when they either have to scale back to a holiday in their home country or go in term time and get hassle from the school?

I guess I was brought up with the mindset of "if you can't afford it, you save up and wait until you can". Plus I had lots of nice holidays before I started working as a teacher and had DD; one of the things I knew I'd be losing when I decided to take that job and have a baby was yearly foreign holidays as we wouldn't be able to afford them. I knowingly made that choice.

Quite happy to be told IABU, just wondered what people's thoughts were...

[CaptainBinker]

Thanks vivienne...I was kind of hoping it was just a case of you having missed that post. :)

[CurlyhairedAssassin]

Ok, OP. let's have it your way. Let everyone who has school age children holiday in the uk in the 6 weeks of summer holiday that we have. How do you think supply and demand works? Would you really be prepared to pay 2 grand for a week in a Haven caravan because that what would happen if everyone was fighting for the same uk accommodation. Then the foreign holiday suppliers would have to decrease their prices and people would flock back to holidays abroad because they have become cheaper than the uk.

Let people do what they want, within reason. I holidayed in the uk for years when my kids were born, self-catering, as I wasn't working for the first few years. Then last year we went abroad for the first time as a family (still self-catering) during summer holidays, for a similar price to what a week in the uk cost. What a revelation! No children turning blue as they tried to build a sandcastle on a wind-swept beach. No 8 hour car hour journey from hell to get there (which should have taken half that but sheer numbers make it so sloooow!). No wondering how to occupy children during yet another rainy day and the only option is to pay a fortune on some indoor attraction.

Just sun, swimming, fresh air and fun. We love the odd weekend in this country in the Lake District walking up mountains etc but sometimes you just want to strip off and enjoy feeling some warmth on your body! Maybe you don't, OP, but I can certainly understand people that do, and I wouldn't begrudge giving someone the choice, even if it DOES mean their kids finishing the summer term a few days early.

[Goldenhandshake]

OP YABU.

For families who work hard, an escape to somewhere with a nicer climate/cultural experiences/Historic or significant sites of interest or just a bit of fun on a nice beach should not be seen as some God like luxury reserved for the rich. Holidays, UK based or aborad should not, imo be reserved for the elite.

Yes, travel companies are ruthless in hiking up the prices for sumer and half terms, but equally I do not see the harm in one week out of school per year (as long as it's not during an exam week etc).

I work a 37 hour week and another 15 hours per week roughly, commuting on London underground. It can be utterly soul destroying, why would you begrudge families the chance of a break soemwhere nice, spending time together for a change?

If I didn't have my one or two weeks abroad each year I'd go batshit crazy personally.

[Yorkieaddict]

Now if you are just talking about people taking their DC's on holiday during exam years then YANBU. I am surprised that anyone would do that! I fully intend to enjoy the primary school years while I can take DS out without guilt!

[ZutAlorsDidier]

norude, I know all that. I am not saying it is "cushy". I am saying no one gets a free lunch, including non-teachers. The days when it was potentially cushy are in the past, when it was basically a personal choice by teachers whether to give a shit or not - some of my teachers worked very hard, just as you describe, and did an infinitely better job than the ones who didn't bother. but the latter kind were never pulled up and I think there is a tone of wistful regret in some teachers' whining that those days are over.

Personally I am permanently on the edge of breaking point. I cannot afford to take my family abroad, school holiday or not. But given the chance to have a geniune holiday - warm, pool, guaranteed sunshine, plenty for the children to do with minimal supervision- I would take it. And I don't blame anyone who makes that choice - it might be all that is holding them, and by extension their family, together

[CaptainBinker]

curly and golden I'm guessing you've not read the whole thread?

I'm talking specifically about high school children whose families book holidays over really important times.

I made the mistake of being too general in my OP and also assuming that the problem we have where I work is quite common - it's not.

FWIW I agree with both of you.

[Norudeshitrequired]

plenty for the children to do with minimal supervision

Do children need less supervision on a foreign holiday than they do at home or on a UK holiday?
That's news to me.

[HangingGardenofBabbysBum]

My parents were in the diplomatic service and we were brought up and schooled abroad. So much of my life is still abroad; friends, family, special places.

Many of those places and people as disappearing and I want my DC to experience that side of our heritage.

My DH runs a small family company and travels abroad often and when the DC were small, we went abroad frequently, occasionally in term time.

We took work from school. The trips were all educational in many ways and the very broadminded teachers they had were delighted for them to have those experiences.

Different story now they're much older, but we still travel extensively. It's not that big a deal.

[ubik]

Well actually it is quite easy to supervise my 3 in re pool while lying on sunlounger, while "topping up my tan"

I also let my kids eat chips and drink coke

[Tavv]

YANBU. No-one should feel entitled to a foreign holiday, it's a luxury. And it's rather insulting to the commitment and dedication of school teachers to have different pupils away on holiday every other week.

[Weegiemum]

Only on one occasion so far have I taken a dc out of school - was my dd1, my best friend was getting married and she lives in Vancouver. I asked to take dd out of school (we couldn't afford to all go, decided me and dd1 would be good) and they were great. Dd was in p1.

The wedding got cancelled with 3 weeks to go. Couldn't get money back on travel insurance so we went anyway (ex-bride, her bridesmaid, me and 6yo dd lived it up at a spa on the day instead!!).

We value foreign travel and budget accordingly - dh is in a high paying profession and we don't want to affect education so we go abroad every 2-3 years for a reasonable time and don't just sit by a pool - our dc have been to Italy (x2), Canada (x2/3), France, Guatemala, Honduras and the Dominican Republic.

[Weegiemum]

We're taking them out in October though - my wee brother is getting married on Halloween!! In Wales (we live in Scotland).

[TheBigJessie]

Having read the read, YANBU, but I think you're misidentifying the issue.

The issue isn't just "we want foreign holidays" for those parents. It's that they have singularly failed to take an interest in their children's lives, and have failed to grasp that parents are supposed to look after and promote their children's welfare.

It just becomes really obvious to you on the outside when the holiday prices drop, and they take their children out, willy-nilly, paying no mind to the exams.

Poor kids. Those children are probably going to be on the Stately Homes threads within 15 years.

[CurlyhairedAssassin]

Aaarrgghhh! This thread is a prime example of drip feeding! I read half the thread just before the bit about you really referring to parents of secondary pupils taking their child out during gcse assessments etc. so half the replies on here are irrelevant. I know you realise it now but if the thread title had been "would you prioritise a foreign holiday over your child's gcse exams/controlled assessment?" then you would have got a very different set of answers!

[jacks365]

I know one child who missed one exam because it was on a friday and the parents wanted to spend the weekend at their caravan and dad wanted to drive there on the Thursday to miss traffic, that child was nearly hysterical, even got the school to ring parents to explain. Did no good the exam was missed.

Some parents are rubbish and do need the risk of fines to stop things like that happening, I know it's not common to take things too far but I know a few who do.1 parent believed she could take her son out for 2 weeks without authorisation then again with authorisation because she believed the first two weeks were a right and anything over that needed clearing.

[Goldenhandshake]

^ What Curly said!

[TheBigJessie]

Pathetic people. I've always disapproved of early GCSE entries in year 9 and 10, but this is a reason in favour of getting the child some level of pass, that I'd never considered.

These parents will be whinging that they don't have a good relationship with their adult children in a few years. I bet you.

[JessePinkmansBitch]

This whole holidays in term time debacle makes me incredibly angry. We got the letter home from the dd's school last week about it now being unlawful to take your kids out of school in term time. I actually think kids shouldn't be going on holiday in term time if the parents can help it. But who the fuck do the government think they are telling us when we can go on holiday FFS! Instead of penalising parents who are trying to be able to give their kids a holiday they can afford, do something about the fucking astronomical prices the fucking holiday companies charge! If the prices we decent in the school holidays you wouldn't get hardly any parents taking their kids out of school for a holiday. Why can't they bring in some sort of legislation that stops the holiday companies from hoicking their prices up?

None of this even applies to me really, I haven't been abroad since I was 15. My kids have never left the country, and the last holiday we had was a weekend in Wales 4 years ago! We could barely afford that. Going abroad is not even an option for us, in school holidays or during term time, it's the audacity of the government. Fucking cheeky bastards! I think your anger towards the parents is somewhat misplaced OP.

[tombliboouun]

What about children who have half siblings, a parent or grandparents in their or their parent's 'home country'?
YABVU

[CloverkissSparklecheeks]

The holiday companies have a lot to answer for though, if someone could afford a 2 week 'sun' holiday in term time but couldn't in the school holidays then obviously that is an issue and pretty unfair.

However - no one has a 'right' to a foreign holiday of course. My parents could not afford it in the school holidays and people used to just accept you didn't really go away in term time. I was 13 before we went on a proper summer holiday but we spent lots of time in caravans etc and loved it.

I would love a ferrari but at the end of the day some people can afford some things and some people can't.

[CloverkissSparklecheeks]

tombliboouun the children do have 13 weeks off school to visit. I know lots of families who have family abroad. Sometimes they may have special occasions so need term time off but as a rule they stick to the holidays. It is not always more expensive.

I think people are missing the OPs point. She is discussing the fact people feel they are entitled to it even though they cannot afford it.

[LordElpuss]

"Do people's kids actually like just sitting by the pool all day for two weeks whilst their parents lounge working on their tans?"

Yes ... and no Prior to having DD this would have been our idea of holiday hell but DD loves it so we've learned to enjoy it too. However, she doesn't sit by the pool all day - she's in the pool for hours like a mermaid. She plays with friends she's made at Kids' Club, she and DH enjoy playing in the pool together, we like eating outside in the evening ... things that you can't do very often in the north of England

[Deathbyladybirds]

My SAD is much worse if I don't get in the sun enough in the summer. I can guarantee getting enough sun if I go to the med for a week, and you can store vitamin d in your body for up to 6 months. Last summer in the uk, there was simply not enough sun.

[SelectAUserName]

I think we've established that the problem you now claim to be so het up over is nowhere near as widespread as you assumed it to be. Very few, if any, people on this thread are in agreement that taking a child out of school over exams is a sensible idea to be condoned. Thankfully it appears the numbers who do it are a very small percentage.

Perhaps you might think in future about framing your OP around the most relevant point - time out of school over exams - at the outset, rather than failing to mention it at all and then having to backtrack when it became clear that not very many people agreed with your general, and rather judgmental-sounding, opening salvo. I'm sure you'd be giving your students the same advice if they spectacularly failed to include their most salient point in an essay.