To wonder why people feel so entitled to foreign holidays...?

[CaptainBinker]

Ok firstly - yes this is about term time holidays.

I work as a teacher (as does DH) and therefore am never able to take holidays in term time. I fully believe that the biggest issues causing people to go on holiday in term time are greedy holiday companies and things like work rotas and can understand how people get really angry when there are such huge differences in price because of these factors.

However...we've not had a foreign holiday for 3 years because we cannot afford to go. And I can honestly say that I'm not feeling like I've missed out on anything that I should have had, the fact is that we couldn't afford it so we had cheaper days out close to home instead.

Like I said I totally agree that forcing families to pay loads extra for travel/accommodation in school hols is wrong. But AIBU to get annoyed at the people who feel that they are "entitled" to a foreign holiday every year and get really angry when they either have to scale back to a holiday in their home country or go in term time and get hassle from the school?

I guess I was brought up with the mindset of "if you can't afford it, you save up and wait until you can". Plus I had lots of nice holidays before I started working as a teacher and had DD; one of the things I knew I'd be losing when I decided to take that job and have a baby was yearly foreign holidays as we wouldn't be able to afford them. I knowingly made that choice.

Quite happy to be told IABU, just wondered what people's thoughts were...

[MistressDeeCee]

I was just wondering, given the tone of some of this thread. theoriginalandbestrookie - I didnt set extra work when my dc's were at school but once when we had to unavoidably go away I did work with them, whilst they were away. At home I always sat down with them to chat and go over the work theyd been doing anyway.

& if a child had been away in their class for 3 weeks it wouldnt bother me at all the teacher having to play catch up with that child...its 3 weeks not 3 months a teacher will be used to dealing with that. & even if it were 3 months; holidays arent the only reason children have to be away. & what you feel is a holiday may be something such as visiting an ill and elderly relative abroad who wants to see her grandchildren again before she passes on.

Generally tho, I feel its 'mind your own business' regarding people's holidays. Its not affecting other directly and if school have a problem with it then theyll deal with it. Thats their job. If they dont, then they must know why they made an exception. An onlooker wont necessarily know at all.

[theoriginalandbestrookie]

Mistress - of course I do the homework set by the school, but I don't set extra work. I'm not a teacher, they will have thought carefully about what order to introduce concepts and how best they should be taught.

As a parent I would be quite annoyed if I discovered that someone in DS's class had been away for 3 weeks on holiday as it would mean that the teacher would have to spend time getting them back on track, rather than focusing on the curriculum. A week at the end of term or a long weekend, sure, no bother at all.

[bakingaddict]

It's about priorities in life and while I don't advocate damaging a child's education for the sake of a week in the sun, there are a million and one reasons why people feel justified in having a annual holiday abroad.

You have taken a judgemental stance in regards to parents who seek this but when people have questioned why you yourself cant afford this you have become quite indignant. I understand why you cant but your circumstances are exceptional maybe just like some of the parents taking an annual foreign holiday in term time and maybe this extra cost you burden in regards to care for your MIL is causing some of the bitterness you are exhibiting on this thread.

Under normal circumstances you would be able to afford a holiday but caring for your MIL makes it impossible but just don't look down on other people for wanting what you cant have.

[Norudeshitrequired]

Mistress
I think you will find that lots of parents do just leave education to the school. Lots of parents have the attitude that it's the schools job; that's what teachers get paid for.
And whilst most responsible parents will consider things like exam times before booking a holiday there are some parents who just book whichever week is cheapest regardless of things like exams or coursework.

[MistressDeeCee]

Just wondering for those saying missing 1/2/3 weeks of school wont be good for child - dont you do extra work/homework with your children - you surely dont leave it all to the teacher, even when your child is here and at school?! Not that I think its anybody's business who takes their children on foreign holidays. Im quite sure parents are sensible enough to go in weeks where not much is happening ie the week before start of summer hols, they arent sitting there thinking 'oh I'll just wait until exam time before I take my DCs away to the sun'. Honestly, some people have too much time on their hands to study other people's business. Never mind entitled, its disgruntled...a good holiday in the sun will fix em

[kaosak]

Cubbie - read the flippin thread before you wade in.

[Norudeshitrequired]

don't mean to be rude but if you and your DH are teachers, how can you not afford to go on holiday?? I'm a teacher and I'm perfectly happy with what I'm paid, even after going part- time a few years ago.

The OP has already explained that she has had to take on additional financial responsibilities due to needing to provide care for an elderly relative. Just because you and your husband are rolling in money as teachers that doesn't mean that all teachers will be the same as different people have experienced different financial hurdles in their lives.

saying that holidays abroad are not necessary for children makes you look a bit like a redneck really.
Why does it make somebody sound like a redneck? Could you expand a bit on the reasons for that.
I haven't taken my children abroad for several years but I am by no means a redneck and have travelled to all parts of the world prior to having children. My children have both been abroad a couple of times but much prefer to go and stay in a log cabin for a week and do all kinds of adventurous things. My children would be bored stiff by the end of day one if we went to Spain and just sat by the pool topping up our tans. I'm sure when they are older they will travel to different places in the world, but not doing it now does not mean we are some kind of rednecks.

[lljkk]

If OP is whinging about people missing exam periods & yrs then I'm yanbu. But general principle is being misapplied.

[theoriginalandbestrookie]

By the way I have less of an issue with parents taking children out for last week of term, or say if they finish on a Wed for half term,taking them out for that week.

[theoriginalandbestrookie]

Someone I work with is currently in Florida having taken all 3 kids out of school, two I think are in secondary one age 8. DS is 7 and he is finding it tricky adapting to the higher expectations of his new class,granted he isn't overly academic but I can't imagine how hard it would be for him to catch up if he missed 3 weeks. Also hard for the teacher trying to help him do this whilst delivering the curriculum to those students who hadn't missed classes.
Not really an affordability issue he just says he wants to pay less. Oh and he could have had the same holiday at a reasonable price having it partly over half term by booking flights as soon as they came out.But not that's not spontaneous enough apparently and it would be too busy .
Really like the man but cannot understand why he doesn't place any value on his children's education.

[SodsLawRules]

Captain I think your sticking your nose in where's it's not wanted! How the fuck is it any of your bloody business what other families do about holidays away with their children?

Iv saved hard and am getting married abroad next year in term time. I'm taking two children out of school for 15 days. Luckily the head teacher is understanding and is ok ing all holidays booked before the 1st of September 2013 (when the new rules came in)
However I would still go if the HT didn't authorise and would go to court rather than pay a fine.
I feel very strongly about making choices regarding MY children!

[chibi]

i am entitled to a foreign holiday because i save every penny i can and do a lot of extra stuff to bring money in, giving me enough money to finance it.

my foreign holiday is going back to my home country with my children so they can see their family and learn their culture. you will pry it out of my cold, dead hands.

how could any of this possibly be any of your business?

[cubbie]

I don't mean to be rude but if you and your DH are teachers, how can you not afford to go on holiday?? I'm a teacher and I'm perfectly happy with what I'm paid, even after going part- time a few years ago.

I just don't understand your comment they you knew this when you took the job. IMO and experience, we are well-paid!!!

Yes, it's annoying that you can't go on holiday during term-time. I just don't see how you can't afford a foreign holiday if you are both teachers! I'd love it if my DH was a teacher, we'd be really quite well off!

It's different if you mean you DON'T want a holiday abroad but I honestly can't fathom how you couldn't afford it. Do you have a very expensive lifestyle?? Very high mortgage?? What is draining your finances so much??

BTW I have two young DS and a big mortgage. I still manage to go abroad every year. No, I don't think I'm entitled to it, I want to. So I save up use my Visa card.

Just don't get it at all. I was on 34k before I went part-time, now 27k. That's still a good salary.

[Tasmania]

AliTwerkNoPay

I guess if you don't have the cash, then you don't go on holiday in the first place.

But if you did have cash - saying that holidays abroad are not necessary for children makes you look a bit like a redneck really. I can actually spot those who have never left the UK within minutes without them telling me. Unfortunately, the UK does not have the benefit of Europe where you can just drive to the next country.

My DH really regrets not having travelled widely when he was young (they did go on one trip to France and a school trip somewhere else), especially since he's around international people professionally all the time (globalisation at play) who have travelled widely, and speak several languages. You feel a little small. He said he would never want his kids to feel the same way.

[AllTwerkNoPlay]

I do think a holiday is necessary. This does not mean a paying holiday- abroad or in the UK. If you have the money, great. However educational it is though, then don't. I haven't been on holiday ever since I was 7, and I have been to the UK previously. I have been abroad for various reasons which aren't holidays, but those were not paid for by me. Would I love to give DD a holiday abroad? Hell yes. I wish she could have those experiences. But those experiences aren't necessary and a parent who can afford any holiday during term time could save up to ensure they can afford a school holiday next year or whenever, or in a half term. Circumstances where leave is not possible for the summer holidays, that's obviously understandable. But a holiday abroad- or in the UK- is not necessary, although a 'break' from work is.

[IamSlave]

I think it depends on what is important to you as a family and as a person.

I cannot afford to take my DD to all the places I want too, i would love to go to the jungle, on safari etc...and it makes me really really sad I wont be able to experience these things with them.

We will have to do perhaps one short city break per year and a hol here or by ferry to france.

It makes me feel sad that poor people are penalised left right and center and now being denied the chance to see more of the world makes me very sad.

I would never get on as a teacher! I am so keen to explore life and the world around us! I think travel is one of the most important things we can do in this life!

[SelectAUserName]

I think we've established that the problem you now claim to be so het up over is nowhere near as widespread as you assumed it to be. Very few, if any, people on this thread are in agreement that taking a child out of school over exams is a sensible idea to be condoned. Thankfully it appears the numbers who do it are a very small percentage.

Perhaps you might think in future about framing your OP around the most relevant point - time out of school over exams - at the outset, rather than failing to mention it at all and then having to backtrack when it became clear that not very many people agreed with your general, and rather judgmental-sounding, opening salvo. I'm sure you'd be giving your students the same advice if they spectacularly failed to include their most salient point in an essay.

[Deathbyladybirds]

My SAD is much worse if I don't get in the sun enough in the summer. I can guarantee getting enough sun if I go to the med for a week, and you can store vitamin d in your body for up to 6 months. Last summer in the uk, there was simply not enough sun.

[LordElpuss]

"Do people's kids actually like just sitting by the pool all day for two weeks whilst their parents lounge working on their tans?"

Yes ... and no Prior to having DD this would have been our idea of holiday hell but DD loves it so we've learned to enjoy it too. However, she doesn't sit by the pool all day - she's in the pool for hours like a mermaid. She plays with friends she's made at Kids' Club, she and DH enjoy playing in the pool together, we like eating outside in the evening ... things that you can't do very often in the north of England

[CloverkissSparklecheeks]

tombliboouun the children do have 13 weeks off school to visit. I know lots of families who have family abroad. Sometimes they may have special occasions so need term time off but as a rule they stick to the holidays. It is not always more expensive.

I think people are missing the OPs point. She is discussing the fact people feel they are entitled to it even though they cannot afford it.

[CloverkissSparklecheeks]

The holiday companies have a lot to answer for though, if someone could afford a 2 week 'sun' holiday in term time but couldn't in the school holidays then obviously that is an issue and pretty unfair.

However - no one has a 'right' to a foreign holiday of course. My parents could not afford it in the school holidays and people used to just accept you didn't really go away in term time. I was 13 before we went on a proper summer holiday but we spent lots of time in caravans etc and loved it.

I would love a ferrari but at the end of the day some people can afford some things and some people can't.

[tombliboouun]

What about children who have half siblings, a parent or grandparents in their or their parent's 'home country'?
YABVU

[JessePinkmansBitch]

This whole holidays in term time debacle makes me incredibly angry. We got the letter home from the dd's school last week about it now being unlawful to take your kids out of school in term time. I actually think kids shouldn't be going on holiday in term time if the parents can help it. But who the fuck do the government think they are telling us when we can go on holiday FFS! Instead of penalising parents who are trying to be able to give their kids a holiday they can afford, do something about the fucking astronomical prices the fucking holiday companies charge! If the prices we decent in the school holidays you wouldn't get hardly any parents taking their kids out of school for a holiday. Why can't they bring in some sort of legislation that stops the holiday companies from hoicking their prices up?

None of this even applies to me really, I haven't been abroad since I was 15. My kids have never left the country, and the last holiday we had was a weekend in Wales 4 years ago! We could barely afford that. Going abroad is not even an option for us, in school holidays or during term time, it's the audacity of the government. Fucking cheeky bastards! I think your anger towards the parents is somewhat misplaced OP.

[TheBigJessie]

Pathetic people. I've always disapproved of early GCSE entries in year 9 and 10, but this is a reason in favour of getting the child some level of pass, that I'd never considered.

These parents will be whinging that they don't have a good relationship with their adult children in a few years. I bet you.

[Goldenhandshake]

^ What Curly said!