To wonder why people feel so entitled to foreign holidays...?

[CaptainBinker]

Ok firstly - yes this is about term time holidays.

I work as a teacher (as does DH) and therefore am never able to take holidays in term time. I fully believe that the biggest issues causing people to go on holiday in term time are greedy holiday companies and things like work rotas and can understand how people get really angry when there are such huge differences in price because of these factors.

However...we've not had a foreign holiday for 3 years because we cannot afford to go. And I can honestly say that I'm not feeling like I've missed out on anything that I should have had, the fact is that we couldn't afford it so we had cheaper days out close to home instead.

Like I said I totally agree that forcing families to pay loads extra for travel/accommodation in school hols is wrong. But AIBU to get annoyed at the people who feel that they are "entitled" to a foreign holiday every year and get really angry when they either have to scale back to a holiday in their home country or go in term time and get hassle from the school?

I guess I was brought up with the mindset of "if you can't afford it, you save up and wait until you can". Plus I had lots of nice holidays before I started working as a teacher and had DD; one of the things I knew I'd be losing when I decided to take that job and have a baby was yearly foreign holidays as we wouldn't be able to afford them. I knowingly made that choice.

Quite happy to be told IABU, just wondered what people's thoughts were...

[CaptainBinker]

Oops FTRs, x-post! :)

[ubik]

Captain

• I work long hours, shift work: nights, weekends, bank holidays, Christmas day
  
  *I live in Scotland, yes it's winter nine months of the year holidays in the UK are really expensive and the weather is often shit.
  
  *We go to Majorca. DP and I drop our stuff, kids get in the pool and we practically sleep in the sun for week. We are human for the second week.
  
  
• Our 2 weeks abroad is the only sustained time we ever get to spend together as a family.
  
  For many families due to shift rotas, part of term time is the only time they can go on holiday - a friend who is a single parent, ft police officer had all her annual leave cancelled for this summer, and next summer. My AL has been been affected too - I am frontline NHS, unable to take more than 5 days off for the whole of July so we are taking kids out if school at the end of June just so we can go on holiday.
  
  So I guess I do feel a sense of entitlement

[VerySmallSqueak]

We went on a budget foreign holiday this year -budget airline,train and stay with friends.
Almost every single person they know had been abroad and I was so glad to be able to take them this year. It did involve selling of jewellery and so on,but it was really worth it. It was a fantastic experience and one we will feed off for a long time.

We did it in holiday time.I wouldn't like to take them out of school for a whole week.

[CaptainBinker]

ubik enough to miss exams?

I can totally see what you're saying though.

[ifyourehoppyandyouknowit]

Because with the daily grind of work, school, house stuff, general life business and other all sorted crap, people need time to not doing anything. To relax and get away from things and reconnect. Yes, they could do it at home, but it's much easier to focus on the actually important things; enjoying time with your family, when you are away from home and not having to change your plans every five minutes because it never stops fucking raining.

As far as I can work out OP, you did your holidays and travel, then made a conscious decision to go into a career that meant it wouldn't be possible anymore, because you were ready to give it up. Forgive me for not giving a shit about the opinion of someone who has had the opportunity to do all that.

[PeppiNephrine]

I am lovely. Very judgemental, for a teacher, aren't you?

I take my holidays when I see fit, taking into account the needs of the family as a whole, including all the children and their school needs. Thats my business, not yours.

[jenniferalisonphillipasue]

We go abroad every year with our 4 dc and the elder two (8 and 5) have missed a couple of days off school. For us it is the cheapest option as we are lucky to have access to free accommodation and no need for a car whilst we are there. We could not holiday in this country for cheaper. We went to a Haven for a long weekend for a family reunion in June. It cost us nearly as much as our foreign holiday when you add the cost of fuel, inflated food prices and "entertainment". It was also absolutely vile. Filthy caravan and filthy pool complex. I think we had a bad experience but it is not one I want to repeat.
For us as a family it is important that we have a holiday. It doesn't mean we need to go abroad every year but we need time to relax together without the stresses of everyday life. At the moment our only affordable option is to go abroad and miss two days of term and I am more than happy to do that whilst the children are young as I think the experience is more beneficial.

[LRDMaguliYaPomochTebeSRaboti]

Late returning to this, but, captain, I did read your later post. I don't really think you can claim you don't 'need' holidays when you admit you've been on plenty and have now not for the immense length of time of three whole years.

I see where you're coming from with being frustrated about children missing school, obviously. But do you not see that you're quite 'entitled' too? You've had holidays, then none for a short period, and you're posting rather as if this makes you an ambassador for the frugal life - but how much do you know about the people you're judging? Maybe they don't have your background and want to give their children experiences they missed out on. You may well be right to disagree with them trying to do that by holidays in term time (and I'd agree), but I think you're wrong to put it in these terms, and it'll only alienate people.

[flatmum]

if you can afford to go on holiday every year why wouldn't you? The holiday/term time thing is a different issue but nobody liked being ripped off no matter what budget they're on. that's the issue that really needs to be addressed, stop the travel companies and airlines raking it in in August and the problem goes away,

[ubik]

No not for exams.

But missing exams to go on holiday is more about being a shit parent than about feeling a sense of entitlement to a holiday.

It's also a extreme case construction -sensible parents would all agree that missing exams is a bad thing. Most parents would not do this, but some would still take their children on holiday term time.

At our school children go to Pakistan or Middle East for months to see family and they have now instigated a rule that if you are out for more than 8 weeks, you lose your school place. Two weeks in Majorca (and we only miss 3 days of school) seems small potatoes in comparison.

[musicalfamily]

YABVU.

I take it that you and your DH do not teach in a very multicultural catchment.

I am not British and have a large family abroad. And so have a few of my children's class mates. I don't feel that it is fair for my children to have to miss out on seeing their family, actually I do think it is a need for them to see their family at least once or twice a year.

We always go in the school holidays but very often it has happened that due to extortionate prices of flights in school holidays, going 2 days before half term or coming back 3 days after saves us up to £800 as a family. If it is between missing out on the last 2 days of term or seeing their family, I think it is a no-brainer, don't you?

[CaptainBinker]

Peppi your last post seemed overly abrupt in response to some questions I'd posed - would you see GCSE exams as something to re-arrange a holiday around?

Genuine question, I honestly am interested. I get so frustrated when this happens at work and if IABU then I need to change my point of view and stop getting grumpy when things like that happen due to holidays. It's why I posted here, to canvas opinions and change my attitude if necessary. I didn't expect to be told I was trying to control people and to "mind my own".

If you don't want to disclose that info, I wasn't forcing you...

[LtEveDallas]

But thats not what you said at the start OP. You said feel so entitled to foreign holidays you also said that My issue is with those who want to sit next to a hotel pool for a fortnight and top up their tan, not those who visit family

You didn't mention GCSEs etc until further on.

So, if I have to quantify:

Yes, I feel 'entitled' to a foreign holiday every year.
Yes, I want to sit next to a hotel pool for a fortnight and top up my tan.
Yes, I would take DD out of school to take one as long as it wasn't going to impact on her exams/future. I think that would probably mean that I wouldn't take her out after age 13 (DD will be 9 when we take her out for Disney, and leaving yet another school, so I have no concerns about doing it).

Like I said, at present it doesn't matter, because I can afford to holiday outwith term time, so that's what we do, but I'm not going to dismiss the possibility that things may change. I mean, I'm expecting to take at least a 50% pay cut when I retire from the Military, so my "need" to have a holiday is certainly going to have to be looked at. maybe with a less pressurised job there will be less need to get away from it all.

[duchessandscruffy]

Fwiw, I actually do agree with you a little bit about people feeling entitled to holidays - it does seem more important to go on a foreign holiday now than it did 30 years ago. I only had 2 holidays abroad throughout my whole childhood and never once felt deprived, and I'm sure there are people who had much less than that.

I once taught a girl whose mother constantly bugged us about interventions, Ieps, her progress etc (she was fairly low but in no way sen). However mum had no qualms about taking her tout of school for 3 weeks to go to Barbados (right in the middle of of assessments etc) because swimming with dolphins is educational......

However, Given your OP and subsequent comments, I think that this:
Oh and for those who have commented on our income and what we choose to spend it on...how dare you?!

is one of the most hilariously ironic things I have ever seen on mumsnet!

[ubik]

And yes musicalfamily - we saved £700 by going three days before the end of term.

[ubik]

My issue is with those who want to sit next to a hotel pool for a fortnight and top up their tan, not those who visit family

What about staying in a yurt in Cornwall - would that be acceptable?

[CaptainBinker]

musical I am referring specifically to missing exams etc due to a "need" for a holiday and being unwilling to miss out on a year.

And LRD my background is I didn't go on holiday until I was 12, didn't go abroad until 16, and had holidays once I'd finished uni, had a job, and was in a position to afford them. I don't think that's overly luxurious, do you?

[geekgal]

I was brought up in the US so the whole fining people because they take their kids out of school seems crazy! Their kids, their choice. I don't get holidays, too poor, but I don't begrudge someone else having one whenever they want, as lots of people here have said most of us only get a couple of weeks a year in total, if they want that to be family time then yes, that's as important as school. I'd trust the parent's judgement, if their kids then go on to fail that's down to them.

And as for explaining to your superiors why a kid failed just be honest, it's still not your fault or indeed, problem! Also just to note I get blamed for lots of things in work that aren't my fault, most people who work will get blamed for things that aren't their fault, it's part of working life and not exclusive to teachers.

[CaptainBinker]

Haha ubik :)

I totally admit that my focus has intensified on the "missing really crucial" school time. I think that I honestly didn't realise that it wasn't an issue affecting lots of schools...like I said, our catchment area has some pretty unique people. Not many, but enough!!

[Crowler]

The whole tone of this thread feels meddlesome. I'm taking my kids out of school tomorrow to go to Alton Towers for my son's birthday - is this OK?

[CaptainBinker]

Is he missing an exam or something he can't catch up on? As long as he doesn't ruin his spray tan on the water rides then that's fine with me :)

[LRDMaguliYaPomochTebeSRaboti]

captain - I think you're reasonably fortunate, yes.

I'm making the point that you seem to think you are the epitome of self-denial and therefore get to lecture and judge. It's a bit off. It's not that you're unreasonable to feel annoyed about people's priorities, but your attitude seems so unnecessarily hostile towards other people.

I know plenty of people whose attitude is, 'well, as a child I felt awful because my family were too poor to take us on holiday, I felt like the odd one out, and I won't have that for my children.' You and I might disagree with that as a priority, but you can see where they're coming from, even if you don't think lazying by a pool in Spain is all that educational.

What I'm getting at is, there's no need to assume the worst of people while polishing up your own halo - and that is a bit how you come across.

[CaptainBinker]

Well LRD I certainly didn't mean it to come across that way and I can assure you that's not how I feel.

Of course I realise that I have no right to say to people what is right or not with regard to their family holidays and obviously I keep my opinions to myself but just feel a bit annoyed with it sometimes. I'll never forget the girl who was inconsolable due to missing her exam and not getting onto her college course as a result and maybe experiences like that have clouded my judgment :(

I am honestly happy with my circumstances regarding holidays. I am not talking out of jealousy or anything like that. I think I've seen some pretty extreme situations and got angry about it and then wrongly assumed it's a more widespread occurrence than it actually is. Like I said earlier, taking the last few days of term off is very different to missing the coursework sessions or an exam.

[CaptainBinker]

Well...I keeps opinions to myself in RL...!

[DameDeepRedBetty]

I was pleased to see that emergency service families in Scotland who have been told 'no annual leave' for the entire summer for Commonwealth Games will not be fined if they take termtime holidays (shesparkles post at 7.49). That's been my biggest gripe with the new rules. Doesn't address the problem that responsible parents won't want to trash an important year though.

I think the last couple of weeks of the Autumn term - just before Christmas, and the last couple of weeks of Summer term - after exam season is over - are usually a write-off educationally in many schools, and if I had to withdraw the girls, they would be the periods I would choose. The worst possible time to go would be the first couple of weeks of September. I missed the first few days of the first term of my O level year due to my father being critically ill, and spent the entire first half term catching up with vital stuff that everyone else had learnt in the first lesson. I also ended up stuck with the class bullies and bores as tables had been allocated and it was non-negotiable.