To wonder why people feel so entitled to foreign holidays...?

[CaptainBinker]

Ok firstly - yes this is about term time holidays.

I work as a teacher (as does DH) and therefore am never able to take holidays in term time. I fully believe that the biggest issues causing people to go on holiday in term time are greedy holiday companies and things like work rotas and can understand how people get really angry when there are such huge differences in price because of these factors.

However...we've not had a foreign holiday for 3 years because we cannot afford to go. And I can honestly say that I'm not feeling like I've missed out on anything that I should have had, the fact is that we couldn't afford it so we had cheaper days out close to home instead.

Like I said I totally agree that forcing families to pay loads extra for travel/accommodation in school hols is wrong. But AIBU to get annoyed at the people who feel that they are "entitled" to a foreign holiday every year and get really angry when they either have to scale back to a holiday in their home country or go in term time and get hassle from the school?

I guess I was brought up with the mindset of "if you can't afford it, you save up and wait until you can". Plus I had lots of nice holidays before I started working as a teacher and had DD; one of the things I knew I'd be losing when I decided to take that job and have a baby was yearly foreign holidays as we wouldn't be able to afford them. I knowingly made that choice.

Quite happy to be told IABU, just wondered what people's thoughts were...

[Madamecastafiore]

Hilarious answer about creative writing and the seaside!!

DS has just done project on WWII fighter pilots and didn't have to borrow a time machine, grow up 20 years and learn to fly a plane to do a piece of creative writing about it!!

[LRDMaguliYaPomochTebeSRaboti]

Fair enough, tone's difficult on the net. And I do get what you're saying about venting.

My mate had a student who seriously assumed exams could be postponed around her holiday, and she'd be able to come in and sit them in a special room later on, because that's possible to do for students who've been seriously ill (university, not school, not that this makes a big difference). I know people can be a bit ridiculous. But I reckon lots of people aren't deliberately trying it on - they're just not as keyed into it all as you will be, being a teacher.

[NoComet]

People need a break from the everyday grind.

They need to get away from work, school and all the undone gardening and decorating.

They need a break.

Whether that break is a cottage in Devon or a week in the med should, as far as possible be their choice.

I'm a SAHM who is lucky enough to live in the countryside, both families live in holiday areas. Therefore a week in a tent or a cottage in the British country isn't that different.

I want sunshine and warm sea, so does DH who was bright up on the coast, both my DDs are fish, who swim and snorkel.

For one week I want someone else to cook and clean and to be able to walk everywhere and the Mallorcan East coast is heaven.

[Bowlersarm]

YANBU

A holiday isn't a right. It's a lovely way to have a break and spend time together as a family. But it's a nice luxury, not a matter of life or death.

[Norudeshitrequired]

Do people's kids actually like just sitting by the pool all day for two weeks whilst their parents lounge working on their tans?
It's a genuine questions BTW as lots of people have said that this is what their families do to relax and spend quality time together.
My kids would be moaning by the end of the first morning if we just sat by the pool. Mine much prefer the type of holiday where we book a cottage or lodge and go quad biking, tree trekking, horse riding, rafting, go karting etc. rain doesn't bother me, I went to the Caribbean and it rained most days (for short periods),hot countries don't always guarantee constant sunshine.
we do still relax during those holidays as we go out for nice meals and spend all our time together not stressing about daily life at home.
I have been abroad loads before having children and a couple of times since having children, but wouldn't take them out of school for the sake of a foreign holiday.
I'm also confused about how people are getting foreign holidays for less than the cost of UK holidays as we rent cottages for around £500 for a whole week during school holidays, it would cost at least that per person to go to most European countries. Tell me your secrets people.

[CaptainBinker]

LRD we get some like that every year...

"Can we not re-sit"...err no you didn't sit it in the first place so it's not a re-sit.

"We'll you didn't tell us about the exact dates"...they were given to you last year.

"Can't you give us a copy of the paper now and we'll supervise our child doing the test?"

"Won't the college just take them anyway?"...no.

"We'll it's too expensive to cancel, we'll have to go and sort it out when we get back"

Honestly, we get these comments every year...!

[Yorkieaddict]

I don't think most people feel entitled to a holiday. I don't see what is wrong with wanting one though if that is how you enjoy spending your time and money. I have taken DS out of school for a holiday, and I almost certainly will do again. I am a responsible parent, and I am able to judge if it will have a detrimental effect on his education. Taking him out in reception certainly didn't. Taking him out in GCSE year clearly would.

I have to be honest, I don't give a toss about the schools attendance statistics, which seem to be what all the fuss is about. I care about my DS and getting a good balance between doing the things we want to do as a family, and getting a good education.

[nonmifairidere]

Totally agree, Bowlers arm. The stink of entitlement is everywhere, nowadays, along the continual 'because we deserve it'. Self-justification abounds.

[FunnyRunner]

I'm a teacher and I think YABU. I qualify that by adding: any parent stupid enough to make their child miss a GCSE for a holiday (I have seen this once) should be shot at dawn. Ditto parents missing the first week back as child arrives and has to play catch up - some never do. But until 4th-6th year missing a week has limited impact as long as kids are there for exams.

Family holidays are valuable. Family holidays with good weather are priceless, ESPECIALLY if you live far north with awful weather. Having lived in SE England at one time I can assure you that the climate is completely different when you go far north. Sunshine is no longer a luxury - it is a necessity. As a child we could not have afforded to go away without going in termtime. I don't regret those holidays for a minute.

It also pisses me off that you mention OFSTED and their 'outstanding attendance'. It is completely dishonest to lump all attendance in the same boat. The child who misses a day a week is much more damaged by their absence than the child who is always there but misses a week to go on holiday with their family.

So again, as a teacher, I say YABU.

[Viviennemary]

You could afford a holiday if you cut back on other things. Can't see how two teachers can't afford a foreign holiday. It's all about priorities. Some people would rather buy other things. Some people can't afford a holiday no matter how much they cut back. Going abroad is good for everyone in the family for all sorts of reasons.

[Acinonyx]

I'm with Yorkieaddict. We're big travellers. Also Dh travels for work and we like to go with him sometimes.

[BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack]

I don't feel entitled to a foreign holiday but I do like them and would love to go every year. when DS was at primary school we used to take him out of school for a week every year and I felt no guilt!! I only get 4 weeks off a year, not 13, and we make sure DS isn't missing anything vital.

He is at senior school now, so we won't take him out anymore if we can help it.

Just because a holiday isn't your priority OP, it doesn't work the same for everyone. I think as long as parents use their common sense and don't pull them out during exams etc, then it should be down to them to decide whether they feel their DC can have a week or so out of school.

[Acinonyx]

Totally agree with this too:

'' It is completely dishonest to lump all attendance in the same boat. The child who misses a day a week is much more damaged by their absence than the child who is always there but misses a week to go on holiday with their family.''

[ubik]

I don't know Vivienne - we go to my parents timeshare, if we didn't do that then 2 weeks abroad fir 5 of us, could cost£4,000 for a hotel/pool type deal.

[CaptainBinker]

Right vivienne so we should turf out our terminally ill MIL and sack her cater so we can afford holidays we don't actually feel the need to go on...right.

[Acinonyx]

We go abroad at east once a year. How entitle must I be

[LRDMaguliYaPomochTebeSRaboti]

capt - yeah, but, they don't know. Obviously some people really bloody should know, but I reckon someone who hasn't cottoned on how GCSEs work is already at a disadvantage. I'm not saying it very well, but I mean, I'm not sure it's exactly entitlement, just ignorance of the system, which will punish them anyway.

[ZutAlorsDidier]

"Teachers are always saying that they work so hard they need the long holidays to unwind and recharge their batteries. Well so do plenty of other workers but they don't get 13 weeks of holidays; most get 20-25 days (plus bank holidays). Therefore their opportunities to unwind occur much less frequently than those in the teaching profession so they need to go for quality over quantity. Therefore if they've only got two weeks they might need to get away from the pressures of home life by actually leaving the country and getting some good weather to relax in."


YYY

Teachers complaining about other people always smacks of "I work harder than you and I manage". The fact that they teach your children makes them seem to believe that they have some sort of authority over the whole family. I am sick of the moral-high-ground tone of teachers' whining. Yes I know you work hard and yes I know that year on year you have been expected to do more work with fewer resources. WELL SO HAVE WE ALL. WE ARE ALL KNACKERED.
And frankly, although I do not agree with much of what is happening in education, the broad principle that someone other than teachers has to look at what teachers are doing, I totally agree with. My teachers were half good, half utter unadulterated shit. You could get away with it back then. There were people in teaching who never did a stroke of work outside the school day, could never be criticised, had no idea what was on the syllabus they were supposedly teaching to, let us all down, but no one could say anything because the child was ALWAYS wrong. There is a tone of resentment amongst whining teachers that those days are over and they are expected to be accountable, like every other bugger. DEAL WITH IT.

[Acinonyx]

at least, even

[freelancegirl]

Do you really know anyone who feels 'entitled' to a holiday? Everyone I know loves a holiday and will do their utmost to try to afford one or two a year but if they can't manage it they feel a bit disappointed rather than they've lost out on something they're entitled to.

[CaptainBinker]

Funny and Betty I do actually mean solely the people who miss things like GCSEs...I just managed to spectacularly fail to get that across in my OP

And I agree too with the attendance thing. My point (again, badly made) was that those who need the help to get into school regularly are being overlooked, along with the holidays at crazy times, because the overall percentage is good and therefore any individual cases sometimes don't get investigated.

[Viviennemary]

I'm very sorry about your mil. Obviously you have a lot of committments financially. I apologise.

[CaptainBinker]

freelance yes, lots!!

And zutalors the whole point was not that I feel I'm missing out - I don't feel that way. I mean the people who are willing to make their parents miss out on exams which delay them getting on in life because they won't postpone their holiday plans for a few months.

I know there's a lot of posts here but reading them through would hopefully show that I'm not a nutter who thinks every child should be in school every day, no matter what. I'm talking about a very specific situation which people seem to be overlooking and assuming I'm talking about the general situation. And yes I realise I should have made the OP clearer so that's probably my fault...duh!

[Norudeshitrequired]

zut I have witnessed some teachers who work exceptionally hard and also some teachers who do the bare minimum.
Teachers do get on average 13 weeks holidays per year - but some of the good ones that I have come across spend several of those weeks lesson planning and preparing stuff for the next half term. They are in school by 8am ensuring that the class is ready for the day ahead, answering emails from parents, sitting in staff meetings. They work hard through the day dealing with the needs of up to 30 children who have mixed abilities and a variety of emotions and social needs. They don't finish at 3.30pm. They run extra curricular clubs some days after school. They stay behind to mark work or take work home with them to be marked. They are lucky to get away before 5.30 most days and then go and collect their own children from childcare (just like parents who have other jobs).
The partners of teachers might only get 20 days holiday per year so the whole family doesn't get to be together for 13 weeks of the year. The partner might not be able to take any school holidays off so they get no / little 'quality' time together.
Yes they choose that career and some teachers are damned good at it, it isn't the cushy career that lots of people perceive it to be. Most teachers find it incredibly rewarding though and live seeing children grow, learn and develop.
BTW: I am not a teacher.