To wonder why people feel so entitled to foreign holidays...?

[CaptainBinker]

Ok firstly - yes this is about term time holidays.

I work as a teacher (as does DH) and therefore am never able to take holidays in term time. I fully believe that the biggest issues causing people to go on holiday in term time are greedy holiday companies and things like work rotas and can understand how people get really angry when there are such huge differences in price because of these factors.

However...we've not had a foreign holiday for 3 years because we cannot afford to go. And I can honestly say that I'm not feeling like I've missed out on anything that I should have had, the fact is that we couldn't afford it so we had cheaper days out close to home instead.

Like I said I totally agree that forcing families to pay loads extra for travel/accommodation in school hols is wrong. But AIBU to get annoyed at the people who feel that they are "entitled" to a foreign holiday every year and get really angry when they either have to scale back to a holiday in their home country or go in term time and get hassle from the school?

I guess I was brought up with the mindset of "if you can't afford it, you save up and wait until you can". Plus I had lots of nice holidays before I started working as a teacher and had DD; one of the things I knew I'd be losing when I decided to take that job and have a baby was yearly foreign holidays as we wouldn't be able to afford them. I knowingly made that choice.

Quite happy to be told IABU, just wondered what people's thoughts were...

[froubylou]

YABU.

My DP is self employed as am I. My DP is busiest during the summer months as a builder so that more or less rules out the 6 weeks summer holidays. The rest of the year we aim for a gap in both our schedules and book a last minute.com type holiday. It may be in term time. It may be in the holidays.

As I am currently pg we looked at the cost of holidaying in the UK this year. A week in a caravan on an average park would cost as much as flights and accommodation to tenerife. Abroad you are more or less guaranteed the weather and the cost of everything else is much cheaper imo.

My DD is in year 5. I refuse to accept that taking her out of school for a week or 2 weeks at age 9 will have any impact on her future whatsoever.

It's not about being entitled to a foreign holiday. Its about normal people working their arses off for 48 weeks of the year and being able to choose what they do with their time and dc when they are not working.

Nowt to do with you I'm afraid.

[shewhowines]

I can totally understand people feeling "entitled" when it's something they've always been able to afford and now they can't due to things outside their control and which they don't agree with.

Personally I agree with you op, that secondary kids should not have their education disturbed. I stopped taking mine out by year 4. Before that I believed that the value of a holiday outweighed the value of a weeks education. I made them keep holiday diarys to keep practice their writing, which they still have in their baby boxes. They love looking at the photos they stuck in and their childish sentences.

So I'm conflicted. I agree gcses are too important to mess with but I also think it very unfair that loads of kids will be missing out on a holiday. They are important.

[ithaka]

Try living in Scotland with the shitty weather - foreign holidays should be given for free.

God yes, I agree with this.

I also think, in Scotland, they close the schools for heavy snow. They should also do it for hot sun - it is so much rarer & would do us all good!

[CaptainBinker]

Actually froubylou in the circumstances I've described with my job, it ends up being something I get rapped over the knuckles for despite it being nowt to do with me. I'm the one who gets questioned about why child X got a C instead of an A because of a missing exam paper or coursework. The evaluations that schools and teachers are subject to just don't take this kind of thing into account.

As I've said before, I don't think taking children out of primary is as much of an issue.

[doublemuvver]

I work in travel so get great discounts. However I've not had an overseas holiday since DTs were born so about 6 years now (2 short visits to DH's family - not really a holiday and a work trip overseas). This is because I still can't afford it on my part time wages! However, i have booked us a family holiday next year (not term time). It will be our first one ever and likely to be the last for some time. We (me and kids) normally go to my folks (in the UK) so we are looking forward to something different. I feel very entitled!! And lucky. And blessed!

[nonmifairidere]

Giving a child the impression that a holiday is more important than their education can't be wrong, surely. Of course, the valuable educational experience of a foreign holiday is absolutely essential and has nothing to do with the parent's wanting sun/cheap booze/tan time.

[CaptainBinker]

Good for you doublemuvver, sounds great.

I didn't mean people who have done what you are doing should feel entitled...just the opposite!

[jamdonut]

For those saying foreign travel is just as important as being in school....I'd say yes, if you actually travel and take in the country's culture and visit sites of heritage etc.
But an awful lot of people just go and sit on a beach or by the pool in the hotel complex and don't experience what the country has to offer at all!! I don't think that is worth taking your children out of school for!

I work in a school. It is rare my husband is able to get holidays off at the same time as me. Our family hasn't been able to go on a proper 2 week holiday for at least 10 years. The closest to a family holiday was a five day stay in a caravan when a relative got married,and we turned it into a mini break,4 summers ago.

[ivykaty44]

I took my dd1 out of school for two weeks at the end of term in December 2001 and flew to Australia, then we had two weeks of the Christmas holiday and one week in the January term of 2003.

I asked dd1's HT in March 2001 if it was possible to do this he agreed whole heartedly and thought that going in the last two weeks of the winter term would be a great idea as in his words we will not be doing anything but Christmas plays, Christams parties

he did though ask dd1 to keep notes on her trip to asia and australia so that she could give a talk about her trip when she returned to school.

It was not an educational trip it was a trip to see family and dd2 wasn't at school so there was no worries as she was in nursery.I did plan the trip to fit in with school and work and I went on the 11 december as the prices went up by £1000 for the three of us on the 12 December

[FingerPicker]

YANBU

I have been on one foreign holiday and I'm 39. Growing up we couldn't afford it.

We now have a 3 year old DD and I very much doubt she'll be going abroad either. We just don't have the money.

Should I be feeling guilty?

[StillSlightlyCrumpled]

OP have you not noticed a reduction yet with the new policy of fining parents?

We really want to withdraw our for a day at the end of January for a long weekend with friends and family. The angst I am feeling about it is madness, so have decided not to bother.
I totally understand about attendance etc, but the hippy in me hates being so closely controlled.

[PeppiNephrine]

Why do you think you are entitled to control my holidays? Mind your own.

[CaptainBinker]

No crumpled... Attendance levels are still the same, holidays have dropped a bit but sickness is through the roof?!

[CaptainBinker]

peppi I don't remember saying I wanted to control your holidays...?

If you read my posts, you'll see I'm genuinely interested to know what different people think.

You sound lovely

[MistressDeeCee]

When my DCs were younger yes, I did take them out of school for family holidays abroad. My family arent British parents dont live here so it was a necessity to me. Whilst not saying its ok to swan off for frequent holidays (not that I could afford it) I dont believe it was detrimental to their education at all, certainly not in primary school. They did well.

I too understand about attendance etc but parents have enough flack with being targetted by greedy holiday companies overcharging parents during school holidays so everyone else can have nice cheapie holidays. I also ddnt want that feeling of being controlled just because I have children ie 'youre a parent, so you can only have holidays during times specified by school'. Ive been on UK holidays but at times theyve been more expensive than abroad holidays, with crap weather too. I dont feel Im NOT entitled to sometimes choose my holiday times/whether to be with family abroad just because Im a parent. I know some cant have holidays (cant afford it etc) but I dont see that as a reason for me not to have occasional family holidays.

[froubylou]

I think the context you work in is very different to what many parents actually do then OP to be honest.

No one I know in RL would allow their DC to miss an important exam or coursework. I can't see a week out of a 38 week teaching year having a 2 grade difference on final results unless they are missing some vital part? And I don't know any parent that would allow something like that to be missed.

Its not just seeing things of educational significance either that are good for children of any age. A week or two spent with the attention of 1 or 2 parents focused on the family unit has a massive benefit in my opinion. Experiancing different languages being spoken, dealing with different currency, the social development of making new friends in a less structered enviroment than a classroom, trying different types of foods and menu's. Even just spending a week playing in the pool and by the sea is good for kids. My DD's swimming came on leaps and bounds with a week in the holiday pool. Propably about 6 months worth of lessons.

School is not just about passing exams and final results. Otherwise we wouldn't bother with PE, RE or PSHE in schools. Schools wouldn't discuss tolerance of other societies, integration and other aspects of living in a world where a world apart can be 6 hours on a plane. I send my DD to school to get an education that far exceeds what results she will leave with at the end of her education.

If her academic achievements were to be suffering because of a holiday or proposed holiday then I wouldn't take her and I think many other parents would do the same. What you are saying is that parents of the DC you teach will take them even if it means missing important exams or coursework?

Then no YANBU. But I think the culture of the school needs to change if this is such a big problem and I would be raising this with the head teacher and possibly governors etc. But I would also expect such a school to have this raised by OFSTED and it affect the ratings of the school to the extent that action will have to be taken.

[echt]

I think the whole "foreign holiday" is a red herring when you consider that a UK holiday would cost as much if not more. It's ridiculous when some families simply cannot have any holiday in school hols time and face fines. This from a government that actively supports putting unqualified staff in front of pupils.

Here in Australia it's very common for teachers to take time off in term for holidays as under long service agreements they can do this - just put in the claim at the start of the year. Mostly such teachers wouldn't be allowed to take exam classes that year, though.

Having said that, DH and I turned down a lovely term time holiday with mates in order to be home during the exam season for DD, and during the long holidays when the uni offers come in - ridiculously drawn-out process.

Boy, will we go on the holiday from heaven when this is all over.

[CaptainBinker]

Yes frouby that is exactly what I am saying - parents have taken children out of school when their exams have taken place or it's the week allocated to coursework in certain subjects.

Ofsted have given the school outstanding for attendance - the school is huge and the pupils who go on hols in term time tend to have good attendance throughout the year (which is why it's so annoying when their one and only absence is so damaging!) plus the school is really hot at cracking down on pupils who are school refusers etc, managing to do some kind of deal where they're not classed as on roll any more and therefore not affecting our figures. Plus there are a lot of instances where pupils tend to get sent to school even if they are really ill, not sure if they genuinely want to get to school or their parents are not willing to stay at home with them, but we have loads of children get sent home ill every day and that doesn't count as absence because they were at school.

[CaptainBinker]

Wow echt I can think of times where I'd have no colleagues left - they'd all go on holiday if they could! :)

[FTRsMammy]

My DS has just started reception an I will be taking him out of school for a week in January for a holiday abroad. My DH is armed forces and is away on a 7mnth deployment at the mo so it's the only time we'll get for a family holiday. We haven't had a holiday abroad for 4 years, in fact apart from the odd weekend away and that's usually just me and DS, we haven't had any holiday for 4 years. I do feel entitled to it, we've saved for it, we deserve that time together when DH gets home and it's my reward for dealing with a stroppy 4yr olds summer holiday melt downs alone!

[LtEveDallas]

I work very hard, long hours in a stressful job. Thankfully that means we can afford a foreign holiday every year. Yes, I feel 'entitled' to it. The thought of 2 weeks in the sun (the hotter the better) is sometimes all that keeps me going throughout the year. I put up with so much shite over the year, that I would be broken if someone somewhere decided that my need for a holiday wasn't 'worthy' enough.

We can afford to go in the summer holidays, so we do, but I wouldn't have a single issue (no fucks given ) about taking DD out of school for the last couple of days of school if it means we get the same package cheaper.

Next year we are planning to do Disney. I retire from the Army and its a 'final fling' before settling down. It's also by way of a 'thankyou' to DD for putting up with all the moving, changing schools, changing homes, changing friends that I have asked her to put up with. I fully intend to take her out for 2 weeks in June, as we have worked out it will cost us 4K if we go then, rather than £7K if we go at Easter and £8.5K if we go in Aug (plus Disney in Aug is apparently horrendous). We are doing this for DD, the thought of Disney is enough to make DH and I sick, but its what she wants, and just this once we are going to induge her.

[CaptainBinker]

Thinking about it frouby we have about 250 pupils in each year group so it would take a lot of underachievement for ofsted to pick it up as the sheer number of pupils masks it. I do think though that it is holding the school back in terms of results as there are lots of avoidable disasters each year due to this problem.

[FTRsMammy]

I have to add though, while I don't mind taking my 4 yr old out of school if he were 15 and doing his exams it would be a different story.

[Ledkr]

I have a foreign holiday at least once a year, I did so when I was a lp and continue to.
I don't feel entitled to it but we ENJOY going abroad and I'm afraid I do feel entitled to enjoy me life as much as I can.

[CaptainBinker]

But LTRs and LtEve my question was do you feel entitled to it no matter what... i.e. you'd miss GCSEs for it?! I'm talking about 2 weeks (not just a couple of days at the end of term) out of school, EVERY year, no matter what they're missing?