For all those who won't fold for wheelchairs YABU

[GobbySadcase]

only now it's legally recognised

blows raspberries

0utnumbered I certainly have sympathy for you but surely you would just ask the other people on the bus to hold your children and your bags? Even if they don't offer? This is what I do and I have no health impediments! I have never been refused help either.

It should not be first come first serve because wheelchair users don't have any other option than to wait for another bus. You have the option to fold down your buggy, albeit with difficulty if you don't have help.

What twistyfeet said too ^

Wheelchair users are more often than not using a wheelchair because they do not have use of their legs or have limited use of their legs.

Of course, they are using it for fun aren't they!

Outnumbered, I tried explaining upthread, it didnt work then either.

It is not alright to ask a person with a wheelchair that they fold it with assistance. So why is it okay to ask a disabled mum to fold a pushchair. The equality act states that the provision must be made for disabled people and people in wheelchairs, if there were two wheelchairs one would have to fold or wait, one may well feel more entitled to the space but if theres one space and two people, what more can be done then.

Lung problems are not problems with their legs and are a quite common reason why someone may be in a wheelchair.

Where are you supposed to put a folded buggy on the bus??

On the first bus I use (greater Manchester area) there are spaces for one wheel chair and space for 2 buggies. But if I were need to fold down I wouldn't know where to put buggy then.

What gives a wheelchair user more right to travel safely than a child?

I understand and accept that you have a problem, however, surely asking for a little help is the sensible option, here.

Diabetes, ms, me/cfs, all examples of illnesses that may require a wheelchair but not be paralysed.

Doesn't make it any easier for them to get up, collapse their wheelchair and store it though: however you look at it that is an impossible ask whereas for someone with a pram (if able bodied) it is possible.

I'd love to see someone ask if a person on a bus can just hold onto their 14st husband for them whilst they fold their wheelchair for the convenience of a buggy user.

The point is, a baby can be held, even if you have to rely on help from strangers, it can be done.

But both outnumbered and I are posting as disabled mums, just not wheelchair users.

I don't disagree at all with the long list of adjectives in this thread for selfish non-folders, just don't like being lumped in with them.

I think the distinction has to be would you ask for help for yourself in order that everyone can be accommodated?

Well then, if a wheelchair user gets on the bus, explain that you are disabled yourself and need help.

If there is no buggy space on the bus you have to use a sling or take the risk you have to get off the bus.

The bus has a WHEELCHAIR SPACE. It does not have a BUGGY SPACE FOR USE BY DISABLED PARENTS. The law is black and white and unfortunately it does not take into account all circumstances. By all means there should be lobbying for public transport companies to have to offer more buggy spaces/more access for people with all sorts of disabilities, including disabled parents with children/disabled children.

But this is not an argument you can really have when there is a person in a wheelchair wanting to come on the bus. The space is for a wheelchair. That's that. Unfortunately you are put at a disadvantage. I 100% sympathise with the fact that it's not entirely fair to disabled parents like outnumbered and beyond. But there's not really room for negotiating/arguing these grey points when someone needs to get on the bus.

I would say lobby for reform with similarly affected parents. Contact your MP. In the meantime ask for help from other passengers to fold down your buggy and hold your children/bags.

Re the 14 stone man, I would ask if someone could help if it were for a fourteen stone man who was completely paralysed. I'd probably do it anyway, cause i tend to go out of my way to please people in public, at the detriment to my health already. But it should not be automatic that wheelchair trumps any other disability, as i said upthread, people with the same condition as me use wheelchairs

So me #1 gets on the bus pushing a pram, loaded up with shopping, with toddler holding on to the side, sits at one foldy seat with toddler on lap holding buggy. Me #2 gets on bus in wheelchair with no children. Same condition. Me#1 has to stand up, fold buggy, and move with two children, while still holding the folded up buggy, just so me#2 doesnt have to fold her wheelchair?

Please tell me you can see where i'm coming from with this, i'm not just trying to be the random disablist bitch who comes first no matter what.

As YouTheCat says, if you ask for help from other passengers, everyone can be accomodated.

Zara, the trouble is though, the law is not black and white, two bus companies have had the opposite ruling. First post of mine said the law needs to be clarified.

I can totally see where you're coming from Beyond but the law and the bus rules is that the space is a wheelchair space first and foremost, for simplicity. Not a buggy space. A wheelchair space. If you want that space to be designated in a different way to make allowances for a person like yourself with a buggy, then you need to lobby for change.

Yes it sucks for you I agree. But for ease of use by everyone of public transport sometimes quick decisions have to be made. In most circumstances a person with a buggy is ablebodied and able to fold their buggy away.

Totally agree, law needs to be clarified. Possibly difficult given that buses are mostly privatised services these days. But really needs to be clarified for exactly your kind of situation.

The problem is figuring out and enforcing a guideline that accomodates a person like you, whilst telling eejit with giant unfoldable pram they need to make way for wheelchair user with no whingeing please.

Devil is in the detail in this one. Not sure how it can be resolved without larger buggy spaces on buses.

wheelchair/buggy/multiple use spaces

I do understand where you are coming from Beyond as I'm a part time wheelchair user with a disabled daughter in a wheelchair. I think we'd both agree than non disabled parents should fold.
Disabled parents with a buggy, on the off-chance a wheelchair user needs the wheelchair space is trickier. Personally I would ask for help so all could be accomodated and also campaign for buses like others have mentioned with spaces for buggies and wheelchair users.
You'd certainly have priority over non-disabled parents and their buggies but would only get it if you spoke up.
I'm now stuck with the issue that buses have one space so dd and I cannot travel together so I have to hire a Carer for her on one bus while I catch the next one half an hour later. This leads to double the 'face the non moving buggy' issue. Nightmare.

Bus companies have legal obligations to make reasonable adjustments for Beyond and Outnumbered. The bus may not have a designated space for disabled parents but pretty sure there's nothing in the equality act legislation about one disability trumping another based on the layout of a vehicle. Its easy to say other passengers could help fold the buggy but what happens at the destination if Beyond or Outnumbered and their DCs are the only ones left on the bus?

Beyond and Outnumbered - have you ever had to ask the driver for help unfolding the buggy at your destination (maybe you live towards the end of the route and other passengers have alighted) and did they help?

I don't agree that parents should fold just in case the space is required by a wheelchair user. I used busses daily for 10 years with up to 4 small children in tow as my only transport , and not once did this situation occur. If people have to fold when getting on the bus then using the bus for transport becomes unfeasable and people will buy cars instead.
Since accessible busses came in my town , bus use has doubled. This means that there are now many more busses run on the routes and the service is more convenient for all.
When I was a child, walking was more feesable as there were local shops and I went to the local school. Life is no longer like this as most people have cars now. Cars have caused so many problems that there is tremendous effort now to make other forms of transport more attractive than the car.
Probably the best thing you can do to support wheelchair users relying on busses is to leave your car at home and support your local public transport making those routes viable.
If the buggy needs to be folded for a wheelchair user, the bus needs to stop for the time it takes, and seats need to be made available for small children to sit safely. If someone has 2 babies, it may not be safe to travel with them both on a lap, if the next bus is 2 minutes behind, they can get off and wait, if it is an infrequent service it is more difficult, trusting a baby with a stranger on a jolty bus is scary.

What do you think a stranger helping you out by holding your baby will do? Make a run for it?

But isn't forcing women off the bus / not allowing them on equally discriminatory?

Although superseded by the equality act the DDA is unique in anti-discrimination law in this country as it does allow discrimination in favour of a disabled person.

So you can allow a disabled person to jump a queue, sit in a preferred sat, allow their assistance dog into a place food is sold etc.

Yes it is discrimination, a blind person can take their guide dog into a restaurant, I can't take my cat. Yes I am discriminated against, but I am a sensible human being. I can see the point.