For all those who won't fold for wheelchairs YABU

[GobbySadcase]

only now it's legally recognised

blows raspberries

I'm sure that a disabled parent would explain the problem "i can't fold the buggy, but i want to if someone would help" rather than refusing.

Ah a 'don't be a twat' bit of legislation.

What the parents with buggies seem to have overlooked is the fact that, were it not for the need for wheelchair access, the space for their precious buggies wouldn’t exist in the first place. And oh yes someone always trots out the “what if another disabled parent...” well yes, but let’s be honest, there is not a massive number of disabled parents in cvomparison to non disabled parents is there? If the scenario occurs where another disabled parent who happens to have a buggy they are not able to fold is in that space then adjustments can be made. But that is about common sense. Anything else is just about entitlement. And IME parents with buggies are some of the most entitled people I’ve ever come across.

Ica, that's very depressing to hear. Sorry you've come up against so many selfish gits.

When all London buses were made accessible, I accompanied a woman who uses a wheelchair for a day. It was eye-opening just how hard everything was, even with accessible buses. One driver failed to stop 'because I thought it was kids ringing the bell' - he had forgotten there was a wheelchair user on board who was legitimately using the wheelchair-height bell. Then on her final stop, some idiot in a white van had parked in the bus stop, meaning the driver couldn't lower the ramp.

The bus driver beeped at the van driver, who started arguing the toss. The bus driver got out to give the van driver a piece of his mind, and van driver gave in and pissed off - when the driver got back to our bus, the passengers gave him a round of applause. But it must be ruddy exhausting when every time you leave your house it's a sodding battle. Even before you get to the bus, there's all the inconsiderate wankers who block dropped kerbs - not just parked cars but sandwich boards, cafe chairs, people having a natter while their buggy is in the way...

I'm not anti disabled getting the spots just don't like the attitude of some that parents are selfish

That is because there are lots of selfish parents with buggies on buses.

Maybe i'm precious but I don't want to get on a bus a give my baby to a random stranger. Perhaps that's just me

It is a bit precious, but a way round it would be to learn to manage on your own, like I had to pre buggy boardable buses.

But some parents are selfish, or there wouldn't have been any need for the man in the OP to have taken a bus company to court.

Good, I'm glad to hear this!

I had an uncomfortable experience just before we left London, when I caught the bus with my toddler in his pushchair. The bus was quiet, so I parked the pushchair with him strapped in (he was a serious bolster back then) and sat down next to him. I was sleep deprived (thanks to newborn DD who was in the sling) and a bit dozey, not paying attention to what was going on around us, until I heard the driver say "I can't let you on, there's a buggy in the space". I realized that the bus was stopped, and he was talking to a woman in a wheelchair who was waiting to get on. I immediately jumped up and shouted to the driver to open the door so that I could get off and she could on. Then a young man actually stood up and blocked my exit, saying I shouldn't get off as I was there first!

I managed to push past him and jump off. I didn't dare look at the woman in the wheelchair, I was so mortified that she must have thought I'd refused to move! We walked the rest of the way to the shops, and I felt upset and embarrassed for the rest of the day, even though I hadn't done anything wrong other than be a bit slow on the uptake.

I was pissed off with the driver who just assumed I wouldn't shift (or was just using my presence as excuse because he couldn't be arsed to operate the ramp) and the man who tried to stop me getting off. Hopefully this legal recognition will educate them.

DS was a serious BOLTER, not bolster of course!

A couple random thoughts after reading...

Those on the Exeter buses are obviously not choosing the right routes. When DS was little (he's 7yo now), I had people offering to hold him all the time and people offering to help with the pushchair (although I had practiced at home, so could do it one-handed). A couple times, the elderly women that were holding DS told me "oh come sit by me, dear, so I can hold on to this little one just a bit longer." Funny, some of them were.

I've seen a London bus driver turn off the bus and refuse to move until the pushchair person complied. Peer pressure is amazing - people were telling her just fold it or get off. She finally gave in (not happily, but too bad). And that was quite awhile ago.

As a parent of a child that uses a wheelchair, there is nothing more frustrating than having to explain to your 7yo (who also has comprehension problems and ASD) that "yes, the bus is here, but no we can't get on because there is a pushchair in the way. We'll have to wait for the next bus." And then having to explain it again when it happens again, while he is sobbing that he just wants to go home. While other people (not in a wheelchair) get on - so he sees that it's just us that can't get on. Cue complete meltdown.

Some days I think they ought to just limit radar keys properly and then put some type of barricade in front of the wheelchair spot on the bus that requires radar key. But then that's just me.

The discussion of whether a person with a disability that isn't visible should give up the space for a wheelchair is made even more difficult by the fact that there are lot of people out there who would take advantage of that. Unless there was some way of identifying like carrying a card or something, what's to stop the selfish people who don't fold now out of laziness making up a disability? The same people whose "pram doesn't fold" or "the babies asleep" will use it as there new excuse. And no driver will be able to argue it.

When DS1 was in his Maclaren Major, I just carried a copy of his DLA award. If there was ever any question, it was right there with his name on it. Never needed it thankfully.

Coming very late to this but quite agree with you op. I was on a crowded but with ds yesterday and a lady in a wheel chair got on. I got up stood and started to fold the pram. Only trouble was I was then standing with a wriggly one year old and trying to hold the pram as well as no space on tiny luggage rack but not for long as she quickly offered to take him on her lap and held him there. Lovely lady :)

Being able to take pram on bus is a privilege not a right

I did notice on the bus today in London (I was actually going to take a photo of it for a thread like this, but my phone fucked up) that the notices now clearly state the space is for Wheelchair users and that buggies and prams may use it unless it is needed in which case they MUST vacate the space. I must admit I did a silent whoop.

sorry meant to add part of the problem is that on our buses at least when you have folded the pram there is very little space to put it. They need to sort that out. Buses used to have lots of storage space and its getting steadily less

Good on the man that took the bus co to court.

I think in general bus companies especially the one in the article need training on what is a mobility device (not just wheelchairs).

Children nowadays are being offered child friendly mobility aids which don't look like the traditional wheelchair.

For instance our DD has a mobility pushchair and was refused entry onto bus because a pushchair was there, DH argued that as pushchair was in fact for mobility of disabled DD and was issued from wheelchair services in the nhs that we should be allowed on.

Thankfully other parents of pushchair were nice and folded but what a pita!

I felt eyes burning into the back of my head the whole time I was on bus and apologised loads. I would hate to feel like that again so god knows what it is like for wheelchair users!

'DS was a serious BOLTER, not bolster of course!'

That's your mistake, Mrsf. They find it harder to bolt if you are sitting on them.

I think this is fabulous.

TO all the moaners out there, complaining about how it's not far on the buggies.... You do realise that once upon a time, you had to fold. You dealt with it. Because you knew this would happen everytime you wanted to use the bus, you bought a buggy that was fit for your needs. You didn't buy a buggy that was the size of a small car, and weighed a ton. The space was put on the bus to allow wheelchairs some freedom and independence. Wheelchair users campaigned to get the space. What then happened was people saw buggies in the space, not realising they were chairs designed for youngsters with disabilities, and started arguing with drivers to also use this space.

People used to be nice and realise what the intention of the space was for... Now, some buggy users don't give a shit and will sit there, sometimes with an empty buggy and play ignorance when a wheelchair wants to get onto the bus.

I really hope the law is withheld nationwide. Will be very nice not having to watch countless buses go past.

For instance our DD has a mobility pushchair and was refused entry onto bus because a pushchair was there, DH argued that as pushchair was in fact for mobility of disabled DD and was issued from wheelchair services in the nhs that we should be allowed on

I think this is the problem as I've observed it.

That lots of people say "Oh of course, I would fold if anyone needed the space." But then if the space is filled however a bus driver has to look quite carefully to check just who/what is filling the space, and then make a really quick judgement about requiring the space-user to fold their buggy.

If people were required to fold push chairs etc, then this wouldn't arise.

I feel sorry for bus drivers. They have to manage the passengers on the bus (anything up to 50 people or more) and drive, and keep to timetable, and follow the law about accessibility, and deal with selfish twats.

yes I agree but in our instance DD was wearing a visible helmet and the pushchair has a footplate so is more obviously not a pushchair but I think training is key for this and to deal with the selfish twats of the world.

Oh and clear and concise signs (where space is on bus and on entering bus) about the space being just for wheelchair users or disabled pushchairs.

I agree that bus drivers have a lot to deal with, but is quick shout of "wheelchair user boarding, please fold pushchairs" really such a big deal? I'm prepared to be told I'm unreasonable and that I was completely in the wrong in the situation I described above....

We live in the US now and all pushchairs MUST be folded on buses. I don't mind, toddler is much better behaved now and we have a car so I don't need to try and get a weeks worth of groceries home on the bus. But when we lived in London I used to sigh with relief if I could board a bus and not have to unstrap Tasmanian devil toddler, unload the shopping and fold.

I suppose in my nice little idealistic / unrealistic world it would be nice if buses could be as accessible as possible for everyone, with of course a hierarchy of need. Hopefully legal recognition and explicit signage on buses will help without folding pushchairs becoming an automatic requirement in the UK like it is here.

sparklesandbling I wasn't taking issue with your need at all! Rather sympathising about you not being allowed on. Sorry I wasnt clear

My view is that people who are able-bodied with pushchairs should fold first rather than wait until the space is needed. Because otherwise, its all too easy for a bus driver to think that the space is full up.

And on a crowded bus, its hard to rearrange yourself & a small child -- easier to do it before you get on.

upthechimney no offence taken whatsoever! please don't feel you have to apologise :)

If people were required to fold push chairs etc, then this wouldn't arise.

I think given the amount of issues that disabled people encounter this is the way forward. Perhaps with some sort of pass system for those who have a child with a disability in a pram or a disability themselves which would make it hard to collapse a pram to give them exception.

I don't understand why people who know they will be using public transport don't plan when buying a buggy and make sure they get one which is easy to fold.

The problem with just explicit signage is the number of people that feel that rules don't apply to them - many of them have pushchairs.

I hate buses and no longer use them.

All my dcs have disabilities and use buggy/wheelchair or need to have a seat yet on so many occasions people have been horrible and I had to explain why I couldn't fold the buggy/why ds couldn't stand up for an elderly lady etc. I went through a phase of just showing blue badge if questioned then decided to give up as where I am the bus are always busy and the people rude to the point it was upsetting for dcs.