For all those who won't fold for wheelchairs YABU

[GobbySadcase]

only now it's legally recognised

blows raspberries

I wish they would issue a card when a child is awarded DLA that could be shown, when boarding a bus with a disabled child in a standard or sn buggy. We have had to miss appointments or had appointments ruined when ds was in a non sn buggy, because we had to fold for a younger baby in a pram. Waking ds up to get him out, resulted in him screaming for the entire journey, and by the time we got to the hospital he was so hysterical they couldn't do the test.

Maybe it's time to start doing that, hazeyjane? I know it's a bit of a return to the "registered disabled" but perhaps needs must? It could be shown on entering the bus so the driver is aware right away.

The blue badge would work too - although many children that have mobility issues do not qualify or do not receive a blue badge.

DS1 qualifies for high rate mobility, but only got LRM. I was really too tired and stressed at the time to push it further (marriage falling apart, had bigger concerns going on). But many times it would have been nice not to deal with the hassle of being told to fold his Maclaren Major when I shouldn't have needed to, as the driver assumed it was a standard pushchair.

Can disabled children not apply for a national concessionary pass?

If people were required to fold their pushchairs i would not be able to get around. I could not fold and look after 2 kids and could not lift buggy into the luggage rack (minor phys health issue). Looking after two little ones on the bus is a nightmare too.

In the past i've pushed the pushchair under the luggage rack or got off the bus to make room for people in wheelchairs. Both of which i have no problem with.

People keep saying "buses should accommodate parents better."

People with disabilities used to say "buses should accommodate wheelchair users better."

The difference is that the latter group actually made an effort to do something about it.

All these people who want better provision for buggy users - you are the group who wants the change and the onus is therefore on you to seek that change.

No point moaning about it on threads about provision that disability campaigners spent years fighting for.

Instead of saying "we should have a campaign", go and start a campaign.

I'd prefer to show a card than feel as if I have to give my dcs complete medical history to a busload of tutting passengers.

The comments we have had when ds has needed a seat have been dreadful-"well he looks fine to me" and "how disgusting that she lets her child sit while we all stand" said while glaring at me, and from another mother with a buggy who wanted me to fold dds buggy so she could get on shouting at me that she had "a newborn not a massive toddler who could stand"

If cards were introduced I would consider using buses again but for now I will just spend money I don't really have on taxis.

Cards would be better as I have felt uncomfortable showing blue badge as it has dcs name on.

Very glad this guy's case was successful.

People that get in a flap about having to fold up prams perplex me. I have friends who won't even take the bus because of the risk this might happen

If there is someone in a wheelchair or another buggy already in the space/wheelchair person boarding I (1) give DS to someone else to hold (2) put any shopping in the seat where I will be sitting or in the bag storage area (3) fold up buggy. And yes I have done this while bus is moving.

In fact often the person in the wheelchair often offers to hold DS or my bag for me while I pack up the bag. And if not there is 99.9% of the time another parent or a coo-ing granny who is delighted to hold DS.

If I am the person in the wheelchair space with my buggy I always offer to hold the child of the person coming on/folding up buggy.

If I am in a big city eg London I always use the sling.

If I have to wake up DS that's just TOO BAD because errr it's public transport innit. I wouldn't tell a pilot of an aircraft they couldn't depart because DS was asleep in his pram at the gate....

What great news! Good on that bloke for establishing a test case, let's hope for some progress in this issue like some fines for bus companies.

We're lucky with our buses. There are 4 buggy spaces and a wheelchair space (which can hold 2 buggies if not in use). Normally that is more than enough for everyone.

The problem with forcing people to fold biggies is where to put them when they are folded. There is virtually no luggage space on any bus these days.

Where do those who insist that buggies are folded expect people to put them?

The space that is directly to your right when you board the bus.

If there is no space for you to fold and store your buggy you have to get off the bus. Simples. It's the risk you take using public transport.

The space directly to the right on our buses has a seat. The space for luggage behind that is a shallow tray over the wheel that just about holds the free Metro copies.

If, as some people are saying, buggies must be folded anyway then there should be space to hold them, surely? Bus companies cannot insist that buggies are folded unless there is somewhere to put them.

My DCs are long grown and I had a folding buggy when they were small, which I always folded and put in the luggage space that existed on buses then.

There's no luggage storage at all on the buses here, so I bought a lightweight umbrella fold stroller and I stand it upright between my knees. It's a bit of a pain with the baby in the sling on my front and toddler on one knee, but it's bearable because my fellow passengers are without exception helpful and considerate, and there's ALWAYS at least one person who jumps up to help me when I get on or off.

Which is what gives me the idea that a shared accessible space could work in the UK / London if people were a bit kinder and more sensible, and understood the rules of moving when someone with greater need boards the bus.

The thoroughly depressing experiences recounted on this thread make me realize how unrealistic I'm being though....

The funny thing about the London transport poster linked to upthread is that the silhouettes are, I believe, of two prams which would be utter bastards to fold. So those people would need to get off the bus. There needs to be much much better understanding among pram purchasers that the £900 bells and whistles pram with the huge wheel base and the inability to fold with a single well aimed kick, will mean baby has a lovely ride but occasionally you'll be left at the bus stop.
I think also that we haven't mentioned that, let's face it, it is pretty rare that a wheelchair user needs the space. I catch buses daily and can count on two hands the number of times I have needed to fold for a wheelchair user. So it's not some giant imposition. Whereas they face the battle for space more frequently. It is much more often that I need to fold for another buggy usually because some berk chose an enormopram she can't fold so I have to yank DD2 out and fold mine, even if I was there first and have to juggle sleeping baby, bags, yelling DD1 etc.

Oh good. But thankfully most people are not so selfish and entitled and ignorant rude and pathetic that they would refuse to fold their pushchair.

I have folded my pushchair loads of times on the bus. OK, it is a PITA but not impossible.

What is impossible is if you attempt to fold the buggy while getting all your bags off, holding the baby and the driver drives off.

I've had to stand holding a buggy and a baby before because no bugger would let me sit down. In this situation I think it's dangerous, and were this the situation I may refuse to fold.

(although I am past those years now thankfully).

Changesbags It is not impossible, it is just very difficult. What is impossible is to get my paralysed friend to hop out of his wheelchair to fold it on the bus.

People in wheelchairs should get preference for the space, always.

Prams should be folded before getting on the bus.

Buses should ensure they have adequate space to store folded prams.

I don't know when it became this big issue. As a child my mother didn't get a car 'til I was in primary school. Before that we walked everywhere. We occasionally got the bus if we were travelling to the nearest town. Back then prams had to be folded so I assume that's what she did. I really don't know when we became so precious about this.

If everyone caught cabs this sort of thing would not need to be discussed.

I suppose that was in the days that you could actually get all your shopping locally without having to bus out to a supermarket out of town. Or you went to a primary school within walking distance instead of them all being full.

I'm sure most of these pram people on the bus aren't getting the bus for the fun of it.

However, I agree, prams should be folded if a wheelchair needs the space. But, allowances need to be made for the person with the pram too (time to fold, a seat, time to get off the bus). If the person with the pram has to get off, then they need a refund.

I'm disappointed that First said it was disappointed rather than saying 'we're glad to have legal weight behind our bus drivers when they ask buggy users to fold them'

I don't think prams should be on a bus at all. If you want to use the bus get a stroller/light weight buggy.

Just to give another perspective..

Wheelchair users are more often than not using a wheelchair because they do not have use of their legs or have limited use of their legs. Little children who are using a pushchair also usually have little or no use of their legs yet. What gives a wheelchair user more right to travel safely than a child? Yes a parent chose to have their child but the child did not choose to be born!

I have a condition called cerebellar chiari which affects my balance and causes me to lose feeling in my hands and arms occasionally. I would struggle massively to hold on to my unsteady two year old as well as my 3 month old baby whilst folding my double pushchair as well as the changing bag, my handbag and any shopping I might have then hanging on to all this whilst the bus is moving. Just because someone does not have a wheelchair or they don't 'look' disabled this does not mean they do not find travelling a challenge. Because of this I am unsure as to whether I will be allowed a driving licence yet, I cannot afford to apply for one and pay for lessons at the moment.

If a wheelchair user was trying to get on the bus and I was just off shopping or something unimportant I would get off and wait for another bus or walk without a second thought. If I had to go to a hospital appointment or something of importance this would really worry me as I would of planned myself lots of time to get to where I need to go in case of problems with buses! If we are all paying the same price for a service I don't see why it can't just be first come first serve as you do not know the background & reasonings behind what looks like someone flat out refusing to fold their pushchair just to be an arsehole. That may not be the case.

Perhaps you'd like to start a campaign then Outnumbered, like wheelchair users did. To raise awareness of disabled parents using buggies. Wheelchair users spent decades getting those spaces. What would you have done if they didnt exist?