For all those who won't fold for wheelchairs YABU

[GobbySadcase]

only now it's legally recognised

blows raspberries

[sonlypuppyfat]

Cars do break down.And buses sometimes have to be used.

[SilverApples]

And the fact that you see your pram as equal to a wheelchair, and your difficulties with a small child and shopping as a disability are why I'm all for clear legislation and large fines for companies that don't comply.

[RandomCitizen]

In which case Sonly, you'd have to chance it with your silver cross fitting through the door of the bus...I doubt it'd make the steps either tbh, but yunno, it's up to you!

A new silver cross costs a fortune. Even the LBC which was second hand and cost me £40 goes for hundreds on ebay.

If you can afford that then you can probably afford a £25 spare folding buggy for emergencies as you describe...innit?

[TheSmallClanger]

No-one needs a giant coachbuilt pram in this day and age, or one of those enormous non-folding buggies. There are alternatives. Plenty of people need wheelchairs.

[Andro]

if you can afford a Silver Cross coachbuilt pram then you can probably afford your own transport too!

Perhaps they didn't choose the restricted vision/epilepsy/whatever illness or meds that mean they are not fit to drive though! Being ell enough off to have an expensive pram makes them neither immune to illness/disability nor makes them wealthy enough to have a personal driver/use a driver service on a daily basis.

[SayCoolNowSayWhip]

Sorry, no I didn't mean only women push pushchairs.

And I would always give a wheelchair user precedent; as you say, they have less of a choice.

But you can't say parents CHOOSE to have kids, have big buggies, take the bus. I don't drive and even if I did, we couldn't afford to run a second car. We have a second hand Phil and Ted's that was given to us as we couldn't afford a double buggy when DS came along. It doesn't fold. I've been forced off a bus and not allowed on one due to not enough space, missing drs appointments.

It's not always about choice.

Personally I think bus companies should take both cases into consideration and come up with better space arrangements on their buses.

[Andro]

^well

[sonlypuppyfat]

I never said I'd got a Silver cross! My DD pram cost me a fiver off a car boot sale, I'm just trying to see both sides of an arguement. I just think it would be a struggle with a tiny baby if you were on your own, I would give up my space in a second for a wheelchair user.

[SilverApples]

These conversations go round and round until they disappear up their own fannies. Sonly, get on the bus, refuse to fold if asked to, be made to get off.
Uncomplicated choice.

[RandomCitizen]

It were rubbish anyway, beautiful to look at but seriously poor weight distribution, short wheelbase, tried to topple over several times and no brakes.

I took him in it about three times and gave up...it was a bit embarrassing anyway.

[SilverApples]

'Personally I think bus companies should take both cases into consideration and come up with better space arrangements on their buses.'

Good idea.

[BrianTheMole]

Great news. About time too.

[Dawndonnaagain]

Personally I think bus companies should take both cases into consideration and come up with better space arrangements on their buses.
Some of us have spent considerable time (years) and energy ensuring access for wheelchair users. Perhaps you could campaign for your equality. The inconvenience is for a relatively short period of time. Your baby will grow up and between the ages of three and five, in all likelihood stop using their buggy. My daughter is seventeen. She still needs her wheelchair, as did my uncle in his sixties.

[jacks365]

My big coach built marmet cost me 99p from ebay and just needed a clean up. I need it for shopping as the supermarket is 5miles away and bus fares extortionate so I do a big shop and it copes. I don't drive due to health problems. Our buses are all low floor so I have no problem getting on but I accept that if a wheelchair wants to get on I get off and wait or walk. Wheelchairs always take priority. I class the major as a wheelchair.

[enormouse]

I'm glad this legislation has gone through but it does seem there's something wrong with human decency that it had to be put through.

I have two buggies. The first is a cheap lightweight pushchair/travel system that will fold relatively easily. The second I was given by DPs parents. It's a big 3 wheeled all terrain thing that had to go in DPs dad's car as the back seats had to be put down for it. We use it for rambling and hill walking. I wouldn't dream of taking it on public transport as the bastard will not fold.

It's common sense, use buses a lot, get a cheap buggy that folds.

[GobbySadcase]

It's not an argument. It's something that has been presented in a court of law and the LEGAL decision was that buggies fold.

[PrimalLass]

I don't think large, unfoldable prams should be allowed on buses anyway tbh - if you can afford a Silver Cross coachbuilt pram then you can probably afford your own transport too!

They weren't in Edinburgh for a few years, but there was a huge hoo ha about that too as the bus company just implemented it without any warning.

[AmberLeaf]

But isn't forcing women off the bus / not allowing them on equally discriminatory?

No it isn't because they have other choices.

They could do what I did with my first two and just get on with it, it's really not that hard.

My eldest child is 17 and my youngest 10. It was only with my youngest that you could get a buggy on a bus. You had no option other than to fold it up or walk. People managed.

[nickelbabe]

well then you'll have to accept that you should get off the bus and wait for the next one.
(non-folding buggy)

DD's buggy doesn't fold because i ruined it getting it on and off trains last year (i never could work out how to fold it properly, which didn't help, but all the signs said to strap the child in before alighting. but it was a whopping great leap onto the platform from the train and no one was around to help me.)
but we have another buggy which we use for going out if we are in the car or going on public transport.

[KoalaFace]

I think there needs to be clear rules and they should be printed on the bus.

I think if everyone knew that they had to either fold their pram or get off the bus for a wheelchair user then people would take this into account when buying a pram. Or they'd use a sling. I also think if everyone was aware of the rules then it wouldn't be a problem.

But the grey area of it all (relying on people's "good will" fgs) just isn't on. Why should wheelchair users have to rely on "good will"?

[edam]

Well done that man for challenging First and making it clear what the law actually is.

Anyone who refuses to fold their damn buggy and get out of the space for a wheelchair user is an arse. People with pushchairs should be grateful that we are occasionally allowed to use that space when it is free - it's only there because of dogged campaigning by disabled people.

[SuseB]

I can't get my head around people's choices of buggy (unless they are given them/get them v. cheap). When my first DD was born in 2006 I realised after a few months of carrying her in the sling that there were times when a buggy would be useful: I bought the cheapest, lightest, foldable buggy I could find in Mothercare (it came with a shoulder strap because it's so light to carry) that still lay flat and had a rain cover. Best buggy ever - am sad to have just retired it after DC3, finally worn out. Cost £80. It fits in any car, on any bus, in any corner of the house. It carries shopping underneath, can have a toddler stand on the back of the shopping basket without unbalancing/distorting buggy, folds with one handed mechanism. Have carried it down flights of stairs at shopping centres when lift out of order with no problem (in one memorable case, while also carrying a DC and helping a friend with her Phil and Teds...). Why aren't more buggies like that? (Genuine question).

[herethereandeverywhere]

Completely agree that wheelchair users should always take priority and that public transport should continue to become more wheelchair friendly.

BUT - I don't get the bus at all precisely because of this rule. I have a light easy fold pushchair (bb bee) but once carrying bags of shopping then holding my child (of any age - tiny baby easier in some ways) and folding and finding a new place for the folded pushchair/shopping/child it just is not feasible. I wouldn't want to risk being abandoned at the side of the road halfway through my journey so I don't get the bus. I live in London where driving/parking is a nightmare so don't have a car and the tube is equally buggy (and wheelchair) unfriendly due to the steps. I find sticking to the same walking distance places/activities very isolating and frustrating at times but nowhere near the experience of a wheelchair user attempting to use public transport. The much hated bendy buses where actually loads better in this regard as there was so much standing space.

There is no wonder there are so many cars on the road.

[BeyondTheLimitsOfAcceptability]

All I am saying is that it would appear to be easier if there was clearer legislation and the "wheelchair" space were a "disabled" space. Then there could be no arguments by anyone about the maclaren majors, and no arguments about parents with mobility issues who cannot fold their buggies, nor get off and walk. And this is what is not clear in law, everything refers to passengers who ar disabled when they mean passengers in wheelchairs.

It has even been used on this thread!

[olidusUrsus]

I would love to know where invisible disabilities actually fall in this by law.

I think it's become the no-mans land that happens very often when you have an invisible disability. FWIW I think if you are a disabled parent with a buggy in that space, you should still move for the wheelchair user - it's a wheelchair priority space.

Personally, I wouldn't ask that of any disabled parent if they looked to be struggling, but I think that's probably how the law sees it.