to still be angry that someone was horrible about my mum 30 years ago?

[adishbestservedcold]

Ok, this is a nc, will try to be brief.

At middle school I had a 'friend' (let's call her L) who was a bit bitchy. Her mother (a thumping snob) said things about my mum that L repeated to me, with relish. I went home and asked mum what a 'streetwalker' was and she was really hurt and upset. We were poor, L's family were relatively rich and mum was really sensitive about it all.

Had a trip down memory lane recently and took my dds on a walk there with my parents. Mum mentioned the insults when we walked past L's old house, laughing about it (but rather bitterly).

30 years on Dsis and I are doctors, Db1 a successful research chemist and Db2 a journalist.

In an idle moment I googled L and nearly spat out my coffee. She is now a pornographer, having her own company that streams porn to mobiles. I hate porn/exploitation of women. There's a bit of me that really wants to email L and tell her how fucking disgusting she is and how ironic the way things have turned out.

I know I should just quietly be glad that I'm better than her and I'm slim and she's fat, I've got lovely kids and she lives with cats and dogs.

But I still hate her and what her mum said about mine (who is a lovely person) and it's so tempting!

My issue really is on your judgement about her weight and not having children

Which is completely fair enough. I know I came across badly there.

I don't think thin people are superior to fat people or that people with children are superior to those who don't. I will try to explain.

Does anyone remember Miss Popular at school? The one who was really pretty and confident, treated like a princess by her parents and as a consequence rather entitled? The queen bee who you couldn't fall out with because they were bitchy and scheming and you would end up being ostracised by everyone else? That was L - most likely to have a 'perfect' life.

Getting fat and not having a family means not having 'the perfect life' as judged by society - not by ME. That was the point I meant.

But weight and the state of motherhood or non-motherhood are not really relevant. I understand why this upset people and I apologise, again. My children are wonderful and they make me happy, I feel very lucky to have them and a bit sorry for anyone who doesn't have MY wonderful children. I think most mothers feel that way.

The fact is, very few people have a 'perfect life' as society judges it - by this I mean having wealth, looks, a satisfying job, happy family life. I certainly don't.

It's a bit shocking that so much of this thread has become about that. Few people seem to think that being a pornographer is just plain wrong and I really don't understand that

And for those who think this was some kind of rebellion I don't think it was. I don't want to say more as it is identifying but I found something online that makes clear that L has the support of her toxic mum in her career.

Maybe the snobbery was all just about cash and anything is OK as a career if it brings it in.

I don't think so, though. I hate pornography, hate the people that sell it, hate the rape culture it often promotes.

Well of course being a pornogropher is worse than being a doctor!

I'm sure it hasn't come up much because it's pretty obvious.

I still think it would serve you better to not go through life feeling that your life is more perfect than someone else's because there are children in it. Or because you are thinner, for that matter.

I'm slim enough with three gorgeous children - I'm certainly no better or happier than my bigger friend with no children! She has a great life.

I don't blame you for feeling the way you do. But you know it's just not ok to slag her off about stuff like that.

I support your right completely to think she's disgusting for working in the porn industry though

Driz Sun 22-Sep-13 07:36:37
Are thin people better than fat people claraschu?

claraschu Sun 22-Sep-13 07:39:42
No thin people aren't better obviously, but it is better to be thin than to be fat. At least, the overwhelming evidence points to the fact that almost everyone would prefer to be thin than fat.

Driz Sun 22-Sep-13 07:54:01
Claraschu, I am sure that I speak for most of the people here when I say fuck off!

Driz, only those lacking in any sort of self awareness, surely? You're certainly overestimating it with 'most'.

It was 30 years ago, move on.

You didn't know what a street walker was then, it is likely she didn't either and was merely repeating it.

She's a pornographer? And? Lots of people, including women like porn. There is apparently lots of "women friendly" porn about. You're not better than her because you're a doctor and very probably not richer.

yep, slim is morally superior. No doubt about that.

"women friendly" porn

Total oxymoron there, I'd say!

I think you might have had more people focus on the job issue and agree with you if you hadn't brought in the other things.

It's a bit of a given that many people would agree with you, but you muddied the waters yourself, although I appreciate you are sorry for doing so.

And I understand your analogy about the "Miss Perfect" thing and the ideal life that society and media both promote, but it wasn't society writing your first post, it was you, no matter how much you regret it now.

I know that in all sorts of media we see the 'ideal' life as having the right job, being slim and beautiful and having a lovely family but we also see it presented as being white, middle class, heterosexual and able-bodied to name but a few of the other 'ideals' presented day after day without question for the most part. Children are growing up now thinking that the ideal is to also be famous, with or without a genuine talent to get them there.

And it would be wrong to bring any of those things into ways one person might be 'better' than another. They are false ideals and I hope most people recognise that now.

I realise you are sorry for bringing some of those things in and that I'm pushing you on this. I don't want to upset you, but I do think it needs to be said that just because this image of the ideal is out there, it doesn't make it right and many people do disagree with it.

And that if you are happy with your life then that is good, but if you or anyone else has to hold their life up and compare it to someone else's to decide a person's worth then that's not good, and it can bring down the person doing it.

You don't need to do that OP. That's what L's mother was doing, buoying herself up at the expense of your mother, but if you are satisfied that you are happy with your life and wouldn't want theirs, leave it at that. It's enough, you don't need to go down the route of comparing yourself to them.

It would be enough even if you were both working an identical job and living an identical life. Because you and your mother never felt the need to treat someone badly in order to feel good. Let that be enough for you, you'll feel so much better for it

walter

I did say "apparently".

I wouldn't know personally, I'm not a fan of porn.

Fair enough, point taken!

Anyone who disagrees with you on the porn stuff, is in my opinion, deluded. I used to watch a lot of porn with my ex, I saw some extremely disturbing stuff on mainstream sites, with millions of view hits on it. It's also normal for women in porn to be treated violently, spat on, pushed and shoved, and for the sex to get rough enough that she is visibly showing discomfort if not pain. Sometimes I also once saw an image of child porn hidden in a slideshow. I could go into a lot of detail, so much of that stuff has stayed with me. One of the last videos I watched showed a middle aged woman lying on a table surrounded by men waiting their turn to have sex with her. Very quickly she looked overwhelmed and frightened, it was so obvious she didn't want to carry on, and the men around her were enjoying that and laughing at her - it was rape, she just couldn't say no. This video is still up online, I just searched for it - and why wouldn't it be, it's so similar to hundreds of others.

Everyone who uses these sites contributes to rape culture, and helps the conditioning of young men AND women to see sex as something that men do to women, and they should comply whether they are into it or not, or they aren't cool. And obviously cool girls must do anal, goes without saying... And like Lady Gaga chirps in a pop song "If it ain't rough it isn't fun." Don't get me started on shit like Robin Thicke's song. This stuff makes me afraid for the generations of girls who have to grow up immersed in this culture, and the teenagers who are already struggling to cope with it.

There are female friendly sites, but how many women actually use them?

Using the 'female friendly' sections on the big sites is still giving views to the sites which also have sections for things like torture porn, and the 'let's laugh at young pretty girls having to bang crusty old relics for money or drugs' section.

Obviously the bias is yours or you wouldn't have included it in the OP. Don't hide behind problems in the systems of society when your part of holding them up. Society may have systems to put that trash on our doorstep, but we can fight them bringing it in or helping them spread it around.

YABU - and thinking you are superior to her because you are slim and have children is a tad odd. She may not have wanted children (there ARE some of us out there!) and she is obviously a successful businesswoman - who cares if it's the porn industry? What makes you better than her?

You need to let it go, otherwise you risk making a fool of yourself.

And you may think society thinks that having children etc is the ideal, but that is perpetuated by people like you, I'm afraid! I never wanted children, never will - does that mean my life is shit?

Pom I agree with every word you have written about porn. I think it's destroying relationships and sexuality, I think it's brutalising and frightening.

And it is everywhere. You can put the parental controls on the PC at home but you can't stop your kids seeing things on someone else's smartphone. Anal sex used to be a bit and now it is completely normalised. Some women enjoy it I daresay but anatomically there is less in it for women than men who get their prostate stimulated... and how many men who aren't gay would want to get fucked up the arse? Not many I don't think. Plus being probably the most taboo and intimate thing you could do with someone else's body it seems kind of OK within a relationship. Outside one - it's simply degrading for the passive partner and all about power and submission. But young women now are conditioned to think that this is a sexual service that they ought to provide and if they won't then they aren't cool as you say.

Being 'crap in bed' is now considered worse than being a 'slapper' now.

Having daughters makes all this horrifying but probably no less so if I had a son. It's so ubiquitous that the bar for what is 'normal' gets raised higher and higher and sexuality is hijacked. What on earth are young people learning from this about relationships?

This is all being driven by porn and it's incredibly destructive. The rape threats on Twitter, directed at the woman who wanted to see a female face on a banknote...ignored and disregarded for so long as if it's all just a bit of a joke.

This is all becoming so well ingrained that some will read this and think I'm just some old killjoy who doesn't like sex.

I've seen young men with erectile dysfunction because of porn, rape victims and women victims of the sex industry.

I don't think that there is anything OK about making porn more accessible via mobile phones (what L does). It is making money out of misery and exploitation.

If anyone wants to argue that there is nothing wrong with it and it's simply some which way of making a living then I point out that her job is making pornography more accessible to your children.

I'm fucking loads better than her and so are all of you.

You're deluded if you think we believe that this is a discussion about the morality of porn. You were gloating (not necessarily a bad thing btw, you're only human) but you were nasty with it and went from being gloaty to thinking you are a better person.

Again, adish, your points about porn are absolutely, 100% spot on and you are better than her in terms of morality and contribution to society.

You say we are all loads better than her but, going by your scale, that's not necessarily true. I have no children but I have cats, I am overweight and I have no issue with porn - presumably that puts me into the same category as her then!

candy I agree absolutely!

You're deluded if you think we believe that this is a discussion about the morality of porn

It is absolutely to do with the morality of porn. That is exactly why I think I am a better person!

But hell, forget that, let's make this all about arguing whether it's better to be fat or thin or have children or pets.

Actually, many men not in homosexual relationships enjoy anal sex and stimulation, it's why strap-ons and anal beads are so popular.

Very few people are arguing with you on the pornography front, most were taking issue with the other comments which you blamed on society, ignoring that you are part of society holding it up and sustaining the problem. While your arguments on porn and the issues of consent and conditioning in society are eloquent and accurate, the same type conditioning makes dehumanizing and dividing people okay which you are taking part in and supporting.

You were the one who brought her size and living arrangements up - if you had not have thought it relevant you would only have mentioned the porn. (And judging by a lot of the posts you may have received more support).

I hope you are not my GP - you are obviously such a tolerant person..

The crossed out bit in my OP is the only thing anyone wants to talk about. It's not the main point and I've explained it. Who wouldn't go to a school reunion and be secretly a little pleased that the smug princess had lost her sparkle a bit? It's normal isn't it?

You googled her, found out that you are far superior to her in every way and that she is the lowest form of life - job done. Well done, OP.

Thank you. :)