to still be angry that someone was horrible about my mum 30 years ago?

[adishbestservedcold]

Ok, this is a nc, will try to be brief.

At middle school I had a 'friend' (let's call her L) who was a bit bitchy. Her mother (a thumping snob) said things about my mum that L repeated to me, with relish. I went home and asked mum what a 'streetwalker' was and she was really hurt and upset. We were poor, L's family were relatively rich and mum was really sensitive about it all.

Had a trip down memory lane recently and took my dds on a walk there with my parents. Mum mentioned the insults when we walked past L's old house, laughing about it (but rather bitterly).

30 years on Dsis and I are doctors, Db1 a successful research chemist and Db2 a journalist.

In an idle moment I googled L and nearly spat out my coffee. She is now a pornographer, having her own company that streams porn to mobiles. I hate porn/exploitation of women. There's a bit of me that really wants to email L and tell her how fucking disgusting she is and how ironic the way things have turned out.

I know I should just quietly be glad that I'm better than her and I'm slim and she's fat, I've got lovely kids and she lives with cats and dogs.

But I still hate her and what her mum said about mine (who is a lovely person) and it's so tempting!

As you say, it is a dish best served cold, at the moment you're putting it back in the oven.

Have you seen the Angela Merkel documentary last night? The woman has class. Terrible insecure, did not know what to do with herself half the time. Her approach was 'a dish best served cold'. Didn't raise to any bait. Stepped back, bid her time. And then BANG.

Well, I was supporting you, OP. I don't think you took it like that, but I was. How you feel is one thing - yes, you are human and your feelings do not make you as bad as them, no way. Acting on them (which I presume you are not going to do?) would have done.

But you are really not portraying yourself in a brilliant light by casting judgement on the worth of individual lives. The actions of some people are bad, evil, yes - and they are (mostly and hopefully) justly punished. That doesn't make their lives worth any less than others. Each life is special and individual, no matter what choices the person makes. We clearly disagree and will always do so - fair enough, I am happy with my beliefs on this and I hope you are too.

Bowing out of this thread now as my comments are clearly unwelcome to you.

MakeHay thanks for contributing. I know you were being supportive and I am grateful. I also think that all human life is special but that it's not invalid to make moral judgements either.

I'm trying to bring up my kids to above all be good people. There are good people and bad people; most are good and only a few are bad. But we'd all be better off without the bad ones because they cause so much unhappiness.

You know, it's over. It is the past. The way you feel about this woman is just a ghost rearing its head in response to a present day trigger. I hope your mother gets better.

If you'd said something along the lines of "the girl who called my mum a prostitute is now working in the industry herself, oh the irony" you would have got tamer answers. Instead, you insulted her weight (I know you apologised for this but still...!!) and listed your siblings' achievements and your own and bleated on about how you think you are the better person. Some MNers were pointing out that your career alone does not make you the better person and in fact, your snide remarks did not make you appear any better at all.

You are a better person than me too - I being a fattie.

How fucking fantastic for you.

so you have done a semi backtrack on the fat comment but youre happy to let the childless comments stand. unbelivably, some people are happy to be childfree. if you do send her a message be prepared for the possibility that she sends you a message back saying how happy she is with her lifestyle and maybe with a few more insults for you and your family thrown in seeing as you dont seem to think she has changed. from the sound of your posts and the fact you have held onto a grudge for 30 years, could you actually take hearing this from her, that in spite of the fact she said some nasty things about your mum aged 12, that she is happy now?

I think you'd be better focusing on getting over your hugely misplaced superiority complex.

Whatever you've apologised for here doesn't change the fact your life and belief system is propped up upon a "some are more equal than others" foundation.

adish in some peoples world YOU are the bad person.

You do know that right?

You can say it all you like OP, but the fact is in your very first post you used her weight and childlessness against her as reasons why you were better than she is.

And it might be a normal response for some people, but that doesn't make it any the less a nasty one.

And with regards to her job. It's not something I'd want my child to be involved in when he grows up but I'm torn on judging her for it (and surprised it was something you could find out about her on google to be honest, it seems unlikely that people would openly admit it because of judgements like yours).

Back to my point, I live less than two miles away from a place where a woman was brutally murdered, and you will have seen it in the news. She was tiny, her attacker was a very large young man, and he punched her and stamped on her and dragged her along the floor and left her to die of her injuries. She happened to be a prostitute and not one report of her death left that unmentioned, none that I've seen anyway.

I found it actually insulting to this poor woman that her life and death could be summed up in three words, 'murdered Doncaster prostitute' without even her name being mentioned in some cases. As though she was less of a person, not someone's daughter or sister or friend, and the only things worth mentioning were her terrible death and the way she earned her money.

Her family still leave flowers near the place that she died. They still miss her every day. She's left a gap they will never fill. It's hard not to be reminded of her every time we pass the place where she died and I can tell you that I don't think I'm better than her in any way because our jobs are different.

I feel very badly for her and her family, and very sorry for her for having the misfortune to meet a killer and fall victim to him. Seeing all that reported in the papers made me think, seeing the flowers left for her made me think. Who am I to judge her when she was so much more than those three words used in the press? People are far more than the job they do.

Judging is normal but it's not the better side of anyone's character. We all do it, but it's not something to be proud of. Judging your job against hers, okay not nice but under the circumstances perhaps it's also understandable.

Judging her weight and her childlessness against your weight and your having children, that is as bad as her mother judging yours for being poor, however much you try to deny it or argue against it.

good post sarah.

OP was having a rant.

We all do it.

I think some people are taking it all to heart, and not for what it really was.

We all have moments we're not proud of.

I think it was about making the mistake of posting your deepest, weakest, saddest, most uncomfortable, least attractive thoughts. In AIBU of all places. And now everyone talks as if the OP goes around shouting "fatty" at people over size 10.

Agree with Jack that is an excellent post Sarah.

I would never judge someone for being a prostitute; I've seen them as patients. Please don't make assumptions. If I found out she had become a prostitute I would feel sorry for her I think, not disgusted. It's a difficult job being a sex worker; lots don't do it by choice.

I think there is a huge difference between selling your own body and being a pornographer - selling other people's. The second involves direct exploitation of others. I understand the role of porn but its ubiquity is damaging society and relationships.

it seems unlikely that people would openly admit it

Er no, this woman is very google-able and is actually proud of being a pioneer in making porn more accessible.

I'm new to AIBU, been on MN on other boards for a long time.

Wish I hadn't posted, have apologised a few times and tried to explain but it hasn't made any difference.

I think I need to go. Feel a bit crushed and will talk about this to a friend in RL.

Thank you everyone.

YABU for calling your brother a "successful" research chemist when the rest of you are just doctors and journalists. Unless you mean he has the best career and the rest of you are mediocre.

I think you are mixing up how you feel about L with her current career. It was her mum who was wrong 30 years ago.

Oops - sorry - cross posted and didn't read the thread. Hope you don't feel too bad. Am just a jaded chemist.

It is probably best to discuss it with a friend OP, I hope you're happy with whatever you decide to do, don't be pressured by anyone else.

(As a longterm hypothyroid patient who helps to run a large online support group, I can't agree that most of the time fewer calories would result in weightloss. For me, and many others, it only happened when we were finally listened to, taken off substandard levo and put on liothryonine or similar. My weight is finally melting away because I am being treated properly. I see dozens of people a week who are desperate for help but because their TSH is under 5 they can't get treatment, when we have found it needs to be under 1 for someone to truly feel well. The NHS is terrible at treating thyroid disorders, it's even terrible at diagnosing them! That's not a personal dig at you OP, I just couldn't let your last weight opinion go by without saying something because I hear from so many people who can't lose the weight!)

dish the revenge was served by life, already, while you were getting on with your own. L has totally rebelled against her upbringing and openly works in porn. Think how angry her mother must be about that!

Oh, to be a fly on the wall when her mother found that out.

I've been in tears reading some of the stuff on here.
'As bad as L and her mother'?

No I am not.

You're not as bad as L and her mother. Not at all, and I can completely see where you're coming from. As a child, L's cowbag mum said hurtful things about your mum, and L repeated them to you. How old was L? People ahve said about 12, if that's right then she wasn't idly repeating it. She KNEW it was derogatory and horrible to say, even if she didn't get just how quite hurtful it would be from an adult's prospective.
I was bullied by a nasty bitch at school. Name calling and stuff. It DOES hurt, and even 30 years later, if I found out she was all alone and friendless I'd probably dance a little jig and say "HA!" Oh well, got what you deserved."
That doesn't make me a nasty person, I'm far from it. I couldn't care less what she's done with her life really, but it would be a natural initial reaction to have.
Everyone has those thoughts and you've just voiced yours.
For those saying "get over it, it's 30 years ago" were you ever verbally bullied? Words can leave a lasting psychological impression, far more than physical injuries that can heal.

How old were you both? I have seen 12 by other posters but may have missed when op said it.

"I think there is a huge difference between selling your own body and being a pornographer - selling other people's. The second involves direct exploitation of others. I understand the role of porn but its ubiquity is damaging society and relationships."

OP I agree with you. I've given my reasons for why I'm not entirely comfortable in joining you and agreeing outright that you are 'better' than she is because of your jobs, but I can agree with you here in saying this.

My issue really is on your judgement about her weight and not having children. Which doesn't make anybody any better than anyone else. You might be happy with your life but these are things that can be as much down to accident of nature as personal design.

She may be very happy with all of her choices, not just the job but her weight and her childless status. And this is where you let yourself down in judging her and become just like her mother judging yours for being poor.

It's interesting to think that L is proud of her job and doesn't mind saying so.

Given that fact, I don't think she would care one bit if you emailed her with your feelings and would more than likely laugh at you all over again for still being so bothered all this time later.

And it makes me wonder about her relationship with her mother. If she has gone so far into a career that her mother would more than likely look down on, and is so proud of it, what does that say about both of them?

Perhaps that now she is an adult she has realised how wrong her mother's attitudes were and gone to extremes to prove she isn't like her? In which case, she might already be sorry for what she repeated to you?

Or that she agrees with her mother so much she is prepared to exploit people because she believes they are so worthless? In which case she really won't care about you or your feelings any more now than she did then, and your efforts will just be another reason for her to laugh at you all over again.

It's not worth it either way. The kindest thing you can do for yourself is to let this go without contacting her.

PomBearArmy - it isn't very secret disapproval, multiple studies have shown that people who are overweight are far more likely to be misdiagnosed, undertreated, get less pain medication and die directly because of the bias of doctors (worse if also part of other dehumanized groups).

Doctors also regularly ignore the research and evidence that people can be healthy and fat and that people are likely to live longer and survive medical emergency better when overweight than underweight (and I say this as someone who is quite underweight).

OP - While I understand feeling better when people that hurt you appear to fall (particularly in such an almost ironic fashion makes it more delicious) and how things can still hurt decades later, your other comments could use some self-reflection. Just because the systems of society want to divide us and help us to dehumanize others doesn't mean we shouldn't reflect on why that's a problem. It would have been better if young L had reflected on her mother's obvious issues with people in lower socio-economic groups and sex workers before passing on such harmful words.

Sorry, got cut short there.

I hope you are okay OP. I do understand how things like this can cause hurt that never heals, I really do.

ShakeAndVac I was bullied when I moved schools, from the age of 10 to leaving school at 16. Mostly verbal but some physical violence. I know the damage it does because I do still feel it too, and I'm sorry you and the OP are still hurting as well. But I do believe that if that some things just bring you down to the same level. A fleeting, gloating thought is one thing, but acting on it is another.

Sunrunner I think I was the first person to suggest 12 as the eldest that L might have been. The OP said they were in middle school, which in my experience is ages 8-12 years old. L could have been as young as eight when she said those things or as old as 12, I don't think the OP said.

Allboxed my brother probably does have the best career. He's the only one of us who did a PhD - because he loved his subject so much - and he loves his job, has worked for the same company for years and is pretty senior there now. Quite weird as he will always be my 'little' brother.

PomBear I hear you about the thyroid issues, you are right they are under-diagnosed and under-treated.

You've been very kind to me on here.

But I don't think you are right that for 'most' overweight people it isn't simply a matter of eating too much relative to their level of exercise. The rate of obesity has rocketed, this is not because of occult thyroid disease except in a minority.

Mostly being overweight is down to being sedentary and bad eating - too much and the wrong stuff. But the wrong stuff is cheaper and easier and it tastes good so it's not always easy.