Am I being unreasonable to confront this woman?

[justanuthermanicmumsday]

for those of you who don't know I wear a face veil usually a patterned scarf to avoid sticking out so much lol. point is I expect the odd comments maybe groans as I work past in my honour of course.

But two times now this senior lady I'd say in her 60s or more unprovoked loudly made comments at me. The first time she said" why are you wearing that" I was walking past with my twin buggy to supermarket, I thght she was incredibly rude. Had she said excuse me and proceeded to ask me a question in a normal tone I wouldn't have been miffed. Still I kept my cool said religious reasons as I walked away. I didn't want a conversation I don't see why I should explain when she was so rude.

yet today I see her again shouting across the road at me this time." No need to wear that take it off". Today I would say she looked aggressive or perhaps it was my eyes deceiving me. My toddler was with me she looked distressed said" mummy whys that lady shouting". I said "she's prob ill like your gran never mind her."

Should I confront her if this happens again? I'm not an aggressive person quite a walkover and not much confidence but I think it can't be ignored its like harassment.

I dread to think ill pass her again if I pop out she's always on the same route as me, yet why should I dread her.

Granted she doesn't like my dress neither does my brother, I'm not harming her in anyway. one sibling said I shouldn't confront her in case she goes to the police. But that's insane what reason would she have to go to the police i would simply tell her to get off my case. How would she like it if I told her to change her dress for something more acceptable to me. She's not the fashion police or the law.

Please remember this is not a conversation on whether you approve of my dress rather this woman's behaviour

Too right it is.

How can you possibly compare a garment that is making a negative statement about modesty and the female form with a ski mask? Ski masks have a purpose. The veil only serves to promote the idea that women's bodies should be hidden.

Hangs head in despair. What happened to the enlightenment?

YoutheCat - like I said, Google it - like the protected subclass issue which you ridiculed me about.

Not really comparing. Just making a point because Ted is saying people are wearing veils in order to commit crimes.

Oh yes, ban on veils but tits should be available for everyone to see.. gotta loathe love the Sun

And I have googled and can find no instances.

Cat - I hope that people are reading my actual posts, rather than relying upon your interpretations of them.

I can only read the words that are in front of me. I've not managed to achieve mind reading yet.

I think you have shown great restraint, i'm not sure I would have been able to.
I think I'd have asked her to take the hideous look off her face, asked her if she always behaved like that, or told her to fuck off.
Credit to you Op, Just ignore her when you see her again, or ask why she has a problem with it.

Cat - google ATAA Jewellers in Glasgow.

Peppi at dancing naked on the fish stall with clams for maracas, but what if I get verbally abused or even physically or sexually assaulted for it? Is there ever a point where you would say 'Well what did you expect under the circumstances, you daft mare? Have some common sense and some cultural and religious awareness and sensitivity, will you? This is a marketplace in rural Sudan, where all women are assumed to be ungodly whores unless they cover, it's not a beach bar in Ibiza.'

I know just about EVERYONE would say that, in the real world. But no-one on this thread is prepared to stand up and say that. Because to say that about my hypothetical behaviour in a Muslim country/culture and yet NOT be prepared to say it to a Muslim/ethnic minority person behaving 'differently' in the UK would be hypocritical, wouldn't it? Or are we so ultra-evolved and superior in the UK now that we are all totally devoid of any need or right to have any cultural identity or sensitivities of our own?

We don't want to admit that there are times when your average British person might wish that your non -average British person (or foreigner) would behave in a way that alienates them less. Because we are embarrassed by our desire for it. It's beneath the lofty standards we set ourselves, yet we happily accept that it is not beneath the standards of other cultures who are not yet blessed with our smug levels of benign tolerance and enlightenment.

Seriously, how smug and patronising are we?

It's as though British people must agree to be devoid of all cultural identity or expectation; we must always appear as a blank canvas or a sponge to soak up and accept whatever anyone wishes to impose on us, and we must never be seen to react negatively to any change or erosion of what the majority are culturally comfortable with.

I am actually pretty liberal and laid back, and I deal with, and live around more ultra-observant muslims than you probably realise. I am not especially offended or threatened by the full veil on a personal level, although I am frequently frustrated by their practical limitations.

I do however, completely empathise with people who are, and I think they have a perfect right feel any way they choose to about it, in their own cultural environment where it is not normal, acceptable or understood. This is the UK. It's just not what we do, is it? It's not cricket.

You might be but I'm not.

I shall take each and every person on their merits and actions regardless of who they are or where they are from or what they choose to wear.

I remember the jewellers. Didn't the shop keeper not let the insistant 'couple' in as 'the black clad figure has big, hairy hands'?

And yes, you (a woman anyway, not sure about men) can get shit from some muslims if you aren't fully covered up in a muslim country (from men and women) and I'm not talking about someone popping to the local SPAR in a bikini.

My SIL is quite religious but wears jeans, skirts, t-shirts... She never covers her hair either (apart from a wooly hat when its cold). It's all about interpretation. You don't need to cover anything beyond the usual (boobs and genitals), and nowhere are you told to hide your face.

Then again, my bum was black and blue after my last trip to Rome.

Bigbuttons, why does it unsettle you so much? Do you feel they may harm you in some way? Or that they are strange beings because they wear an item of clothing that you don't?
The DietStartsTomorrow I do not believe they will harm me at all no. We are programmed, as many animals are, to read the face.If I am on the internet, typing here, I do not expect to see any faces, I do not gather any social information from reading faces. But when I am out and about and I pass someone who has has completely hidden their face then I feel threatened because I cannot meet my basic, human, instinctual need to do this.
It really gives me the creeps. It does not offend me.
You cannot draw any kind of parallel with people being offended by wearing shorts. It is the concealment of an extremely important part of basic human face to face interaction that bothers me.

And the point about Muslim cultures is that women are not expected or allowed to socially interact with non-related men, other than in an official or professional capacity, and even then not without a chaperone.

That is fundamentally alien to our British culture.

I suppose the two countries that spring to mind with full cover-up are Afghanistan and Saudi. Now, these countries are not exactly enlightened when it comes to the treatment of women - agreed?

I have no doubt that there are women there who are doctors, surgeons, academics, etc but are they from the priveleged, educated and 'upper' classes, or Jane Blow whose dad has a shop, with the odd exception of a woman with extremely high intellect who has found a sponsor or supporter.

You can't say that the treatent of women and the social attitudes towards them are not interlinked.

The idea that a woman should be shrowded, bodyguarded by their father, brothers and husband (then sons) implies that they are either evil (likely to get carried away with lust or something), ikkle pikkle dainty wee girlies who might get all silly and giddy and fall into a river, or be raped by any passing stranger. Very very odd ideas indeed. As a woman its downright bloody insulting.

Do we want to copy? Or follow our religion, whatever that may be, in a society which allows a hell of a lot more freedom than that.

Hanging gays and 'bad women' is also 'cultural tradition'. God forbid.

I do have sympathy with moderate Muslims in Muslim countries who are scared that their choices to dress, go about their daily business and worship as they please might be being eroded. I can understand that people feel uneasy about the veil and niqab, especially as it seems to be coming more common. I just don't think people should be shouted at in the UK for the way they dress. I also have a problem with making laws about telling women how they should dress unless it's to do with work related issues.

Muslims in the UK (not UK born) who choose to completely veil are a very small minority.

It would be like a christian deciding to go all Amish. You or I would look at them and thing "what the...???!!!".

Now if he or she were to do this in downtown Tehran, the lesser educated would think 'that christian lot are bonkers, and complete weirdos'. Further to this scenario, say that there were some completely barking ones who decided that since the ME is where christianity was born, every single person should be christian, or deserve to die, and strated bombing government buildings, religious buildings etc. Oh hang on, is this familiar... Crusades?

Now much as I get cross with (usually) the young muslim yoof 'eeets the croosades aginst arr mooslim bravvers, innit' it was rather a long time ago, there are weirdos now, but far less of them these days, and Islam was hardly spread by kind words and deeds.

I am rambling off, but the truth of the matter is... Veils are a minority. Many muslins refer to this as 'stone age' and I think it is not relevant to the religion of islam, society or age in which we live. Its cultural.

When someone says 'muslim' I don't think of a letterbox lady.

Much as I'd love to wear a lovely sari or kimono, I'd look like a complete twat.

nicename - Veil wearers are not a tiny minority of muslims in the town where I live. Over the last few years, more and more people have started to wear them.

Maybe they are a tiny minority of UK muslims as a whole. Moving away would be seen as racist white flight, no doubt.

I'd say that in the UK, (British born woman), it's a minority. What's the origin of the majority of the women?

My indian next door neighbour moved because he wanted to live in a more "English" community. These were his words, not mine.

nicename - I don't know where most of them originate from, but they don't speak English as their first language and aren't keen to talk.

The town has had a lot of trouble between peoples from two countries, but they got separated by the council when one lot of them got rehomed in a neighbouring town.

People have been found guilty of terrorist offences from this town. I'm not saying this is anything to do with veils.

My best friend at sixth form was muslim. We had so much in common and used to have such a laugh, but she used to read Barbara Cartland novels (loads of them) for romance because she was dreading having an arranged marriage.

I walked to school with my friend who happens to be a muslim today and walked back with my friend who happens to be hindu. Most people just get on with eachother.