To find it amusing how women that are obsessed with how they look and are in love with themselves...

[Nonalphamum]

.......are often perceived by others to be 'very beautiful' when often they are not.

I am thinking of two examples really; the first is a mum from my DCs school. Early forties and totally obsessed with the way she looks and constantly putting 'selfies' on Facebook of herself posing. she is average looking but I know lots of women that are far prettier and more natural. Yet because she thinks she is gorgeous everyone queues up to tell her how gorgeous she is and lots of mums at the school seem to be taken in by it too 'X's mum is so beautiful'. I think they are taken in by it as she wears nice clothes, has hair extensions, fake tans, nail extensions etc.

The second is a woman I know from an online forum. Again average looking but totally in love with herself and absolutely covered in fake tan and make up, and posting constant selfies again on Facebook. She is known as the 'beautiful' one from the forum but in all honesty I think lots of other members are far prettier and more natural.

I know I'm going to be accused of being jealous, and I'm truly not. I just can't understand why people are taken in by that kind of person. It's like if a person loves themselves then everyone else assumes they must be beautiful. A bit like the Emperor's New Clothes scenario.

And maybe even contribute

How can anyone say how soneone looks tells you about what they do?so a lady who isnt bothered about looking immaculated does and is what?a lady who is immaculate does and is what?

There is a difference between "making an effort with your appearance", which is one thing - and something many women and men do, in fact I'd say it's normal - and the thing the OP wrote about which is being covered in fake tan, hair and nails, constantly posting selfies and being in a relationship with those around you where they constantly have to tell you you are beautiful.

They are two different things! The OP was not attacking anyone for making an effort with their appearance.

I think the OP has drawn wrath by pointing out that the person in question is "average looking" so people think she's saying that's some kind of failing. I think what she meant was that the beautiful reputation and comments persist despite that - that what people are responding to is the expensive paraphernalia.

I really don't think this has anything to do with the fact that you can be a beautiful, glowing person while having a wonky nose or whatever - and vice versa - obviously that's true. It's about this particular phenomenon of people being appearance-obsessed and taking the role of "most beautiful" and other people propping them up.

And I think most people on this thread would actually know the difference between that and someone who simply takes an interest in their appearance and may look great because of it.

Not that it matters - but people are really getting the wrong end of the stick.

Uglyfuckling, you're misunderstanding what it is that people might potentially find annoying; ie, behaviours that are irritating.

glamour and beauty in themselves aren't irritating.

And actually, the situation the OP describes is depressing because it's actually about insecurity, conformity and controlling behaviour. Whereas that's not the case with someone who just looks good.

lady What is the difference between the way you make an effort with your appearance and the way those wearing fake tan do? Aside from the tools/application. As far as they are concerned, they are just making an effort.

The OP talks about people being fooled by these people, like they've been conned into finding them attractive. That's just weird.

Yes.

Lot of issues being confused by posters here.

It's not about the fake tan itself, it's just that the large amount of fakery is typical.

I think the key difference is why you are doing it. Clothes/general look because you like them and enjoy them, or for the selfies and the applause.

In which case the fakery is no indication.

Someone could be wearing all the fake stuff just because they like it.
Someone else could be going for the all natural look for the praise.

And even if it is done for the praise isn't it awful to be nasty about them when they are obviously suffering from low self esteem?

But why should this "taking the role" and "propping up" business you speak of affect or bother anyone who doesn't want to be a part of it? Attention isn't a finite resource, I do not suffer because somebody fishes for compliments on their FB page.

Of course, if people are self-obsessed to the point of being boring then I am likely to detach from them, but that's because I'm bored, not because I think there's some kind of school nativity play of life going on in which I have been cast as sixth sheep or whatever while they get to be Mary. Adult socialising just doesn't work like that (or if it does for you, get some new friends sharpish).

I think it is subtle difference and also it taps into a bigger issue to do with what is valuable in a person. Look at all the clothes aimed at little girls that stress that being "gorgeous", a "princess", or "sexy" is what they should be aiming for - what they should be. While for the boys it's about being an astronaut, bug-hunter, racing driver or whatever. Boys/men can still care about their appearance, of course, but they don't get this message that it's the be-all and end-all, while girls do.

The woman the OP describes is someone who's reached adulthood with that view and must reinforce it to maintain a sense of themselves - and that's a bad thing for women IMO. Someone who has healthy self-esteem and doesn't think they are nothing more than their appearance, but who happens to like clothes and dressing nicely is not the same.

I agree, but think the OP (and a few subsequent posters) have condemned the woman and not the society she is a product of.

And even if it is done for the praise isn't it awful to be nasty about them when they are obviously suffering from low self esteem?

Well yes ok you are right. But then low self-esteem leads to many other behaviours that are annoying or worse, and not easily forgiven - controlling behaviour, narcissism, alcoholism, misogyny to name a few.

I totally agree madbuslady - just detach from such people, as I said earlier - and I don't FB precisely because of this.

I've just got sucked in because I was annoyed by people not getting the point. Ought to get back to work

But we don't know from the Op why the two examples are posting selfies do we?

One of the examples is from an online forum, and is the supposed "most beautiful" from the forum. I doubt she gave herself that title. Though I have to say unless the average age of the forum users is 13, it sounds a grim place!

I don't like the overdone, over made up look one bit. I can think of a few aquaintances who (to my mind) looked far better before they started the teeth whitening/self tanning/false eyelashes etc. But is fairly obvious that some people like that look, not least the women praising the two examples in the OP.

I find it a little sad rather than amusing when someone regardless of gender spends an inordinate amount of time in front of the mirror,and thinks that artificial enhancement is more attractive than the natural,clean, and (hopefully) healthy 'look'.

Each to their own though so long as they aren't expecting me to fawn over them.Because I won't.

Hear hear VerySmallSqueak

But you still see the world in terms of these people "taking a role" LadyBigtoes. At some level you clearly feel it's a zero sum game. And other people have said related things about these kinds of women taking all the attention or similar. It just sounds like a strange and self-defeating way to look at the world to me.

Also, I think you (and others) are very generously reading a whole load of sociological observation into the OP which I don't see there at all. Her beef with these women seems to be that they're not beautiful enough to do fake tan and dress nicely and don't deserve the compliments they get, rather than that fakery as a whole is a social evil.

Anyway, do some work! So should I

Maybe they don't think of it in terms of "more attractive" though, maybe they just enjoy it. I know when I was spending hours on my makeup (way back in the mists of time) I was actually enjoying that time. Might not have been the most worthy hobby, but it made me happy.

I find it sad when people feel they have to do it when they don't gain any pleasure from it.

I find it sad when people judge others for having different priorities/interests.

I don't find it sad when someone does something they enjoy which harms no one.

It's usually the ones who are constantly putting selfies up, who are tanned/fake-nailed/slathered in makeup who are actually lacking in confidence.

Real confidence doesn't need the approval of others.

Well, real confidence probably doesn't need to observe those who may be lacking confidence and start threads about their shortcomings.

It's usually the ones who are constantly putting selfies up, who are tanned/fake-nailed/slathered in makeup who are actually lacking in confidence.

There are sometimes criticisms though of people having "not made an effort" if they prefer not to wear makeup/fake tan or have plucked eyebrows or spend a lot of time choosing clothes.

There was a programme on BBC4 a while back about the golden Age of glamour. One of the points that was made was that in the 1920s, for the first time ever, a poor woman could look as good as a rich woman. Artifice was cheap and therefore gave poor women power they didn't have before.

Having said that I think 20wkbaby has it right when she says people compliment people who make a fuss about 'their' thing because it's an easy thing to compliment on. But does it matter? And people will congregate round these obvious totem poles because we all use them as shorthand to describe the kind of person we are, whether they are our books, or the way we decorate our house, or the way we make ourselves or our children look. As the PPs who spoke about dressing grungily or as a goth did as teenagers.

Nona I completely and totally agree with you and I've said the same thing myself on MN before. There is a huge difference between being beautiful/pretty/attractive or whatever, and merely being ridiculously highly groomed in a very fake way. Of course if you are average or below average looking you could make yourself look much better if you were prepared to spend out on dental veneers, botox, expensive hairdressing or a nose job, but even then you can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. You only have to look at some of the plainer minor slebs in Hollywood to see that - they are still not beautiful even with all that money and effort. Well fair enough, we can't all be gorgeous.

The difference is lost on some women though, especially the ones with over-inflated self esteem. I have nothing against any average looking woman having great self esteem (in fact I am delighted about that) and I have nothing against anyone making the best of whatever they have, should they so choose, but some of them do seem to be in love with themselves to a quite laughable degree.

What was the point of starting this thread? Your OP sounds very catty tbh. Maybe this woman is perceived as beautiful because she's a nice person and that shines through.