To find it amusing how women that are obsessed with how they look and are in love with themselves...

[Nonalphamum]

.......are often perceived by others to be 'very beautiful' when often they are not.

I am thinking of two examples really; the first is a mum from my DCs school. Early forties and totally obsessed with the way she looks and constantly putting 'selfies' on Facebook of herself posing. she is average looking but I know lots of women that are far prettier and more natural. Yet because she thinks she is gorgeous everyone queues up to tell her how gorgeous she is and lots of mums at the school seem to be taken in by it too 'X's mum is so beautiful'. I think they are taken in by it as she wears nice clothes, has hair extensions, fake tans, nail extensions etc.

The second is a woman I know from an online forum. Again average looking but totally in love with herself and absolutely covered in fake tan and make up, and posting constant selfies again on Facebook. She is known as the 'beautiful' one from the forum but in all honesty I think lots of other members are far prettier and more natural.

I know I'm going to be accused of being jealous, and I'm truly not. I just can't understand why people are taken in by that kind of person. It's like if a person loves themselves then everyone else assumes they must be beautiful. A bit like the Emperor's New Clothes scenario.

Seriously, how many people do all of you know who go round in false eyelashes fake bake hair extensions etc all the time? Is it really such a huge social problem? Maybe I live under a rock or something. It just feels to me like someone's invented new female stereotypes for other females to disapprove of and handwring over, and very few of these people actually exist or pose much of a problem to society at large.

I know of four people

Wow, this is such a bitchy nasty bitter, post.

"Aren't we always saying that with kids it's more important to praise for effort than for something intrinsic and unearned?". Good point, Sunnysummer. We brits still can't get away from despising effort. It feels like we're still hankering, deep-down, after that "gentleman sportsman" image of the totally untrained cricketer emerging from the bar after a couple of Pimms to score a quick 100.

TheUglyFuckling, yes, I sort of agree with you, but I do think slebs (and others with enough money) can sometimes make a hell of a difference without it looking fake in the way you're talking about. Jennifer Aniston? Nicole Kidman? They look brilliant, but I bet they could look pretty ordinary if they gave up the effort.

Underneath it all, are we often really bothered by how easily men are "duped"? Are we threatened by how easily women can make themselves appealing to men? Do we feel that making an effort is an explicit attempt to compete? (e.g., for men's attentions)

Fair point ZipIt, you do have to wonder what the perceived threat is?

Seriously, how many people do all of you know who go round in false eyelashes fake bake hair extensions etc all the time? Is it really such a huge social problem? Maybe I live under a rock or something. It just feels to me like someone's invented new female stereotypes for other females to disapprove of and handwring over, and very few of these people actually exist or pose much of a problem to society at large

All my students look like this, some have a little less tan, some have naturally long hair, but the long hair, nails, false eyelashes, it's the look all the younger girls have even if they are quite classy (they do less fake tan and wear slightly different clothes). There's not much call for individuality, although many of them are very pretty (if you can look behind the spider eyelashes).

I don't see that there is anything wrong with admiring somebody's physical attributes, but I do think it is shallow and wrong to make that the most important thing about a person.

To me, all the fakery of false nails, hair extensions, fake tan etc is a deliberate attempt to make appearance the most obvious and important thing about yourself.

It is a shame that we live in a society where so many people agree with the idea that appearance is all-important, and it is both frustrating and sad that there are people who perpetuate the problem by buying into the the cult of image.

It is irritating to try to teach our children that what counts is the person you are, not how you look, when there are so many adults who appear to believe that popularity is bought by looking attractive.

mumsy Teens and young adults have always tended towards more OTT fashion choices, and a kind of tribal identity. Individualism has never been massive in that age group. That's normal. Part of the process.

"All my students look like this". Yep, me too, mumsyblouse. I work at a highly-ranked university, and this could describe quite a high proportion of the students. Alarming.

MurderOfGoths, this is also true I think. Somehow it feels really different from the grungy look we aspired to in the 90s, but that was just as much an appearance thing as the nails/fake tan, etc.

Agree MoG About half my school year group had perms, I doubt they all have them now. All the undergrad students I see around here have teeny shorts and those huge hair buns that got such a slating on a thread here recently - again, probably not going to look like that all their lives (though most of them look very good on it anyway ).

Every generation tends to believe the next generation is obviously going to hell in a bucket.

It's manners.

I don't give a shiny shit about dogs - but if I am speaking to someone with a poodle on a leash, I'll compliment them on their well turned out dog.

Being visibly into beautifying yourself gives an easy clue that you'd like to be noticed for your looks.

.......are often perceived by others to be 'very beautiful' when often they are not.

So let's be clear. They think they are beautiful and others think they are beautiful.

But you don't think they are beautiful, therefore they are not beautiful.

An odd, non sensicak and frankly very dull discussion OP! I am guessing the root cause is jealously.

ZipIt I like to pretend I was an individual, but I was a goth. I looked just like the other goths. It was OTT, and extremely fake. Most of the goths I knew have toned it down as other things have become more important, but a teens we were so concerned about figuring out our identities, and fashion was the most obvious way we showed that. Of course teens are still doing that.

Hell, I'm only 29 and struggling with not having a "look", it's been such a big part of my life for so long, it's hard to let go.

I can't judge those kids in their hair extensions and fake tan, they are doing exactly what I did, just with different specifics.

?If a person has ugly thoughts, it begins to show on the face. And when that person has ugly thoughts every day, every week, every year, the face gets uglier and uglier until you can hardly bear to look at it.

A person who has good thoughts cannot ever be ugly. You can have a wonky nose and a crooked mouth and a double chin and stick-out teeth, but if you have good thoughts it will shine out of your face like sunbeams and you will always look lovely.?
― Roald Dahl, The Twits

A bit late to this thread but I notice a similar thing with people claiming a particular type of knowledge. That is their 'thing' and because they bang on about it and make a big deal of it other people support them in their belief either out of politeness, or because they don't care, or because they believe them, or even because they just want to stop talking about it.

I know someone who is all about 'spooky feelings' - nothing substantiated of course and all very obvious 'predictions' but she has got several other people going with her.

I think it is definitely self esteem related - no other kind of authority or 'specialness' in their own eyes at least.

I sometimes think people are too quick to call others jealous. If you take an example not involving something people value i.e. beauty is seems a lot less like jealousy and more like bafflement.

I think a lot of people don't see the difference between being naturally good-looking/pretty and being well groomed!

MoG, "they are doing exactly what I did, just with different specifics". Yes, it's so true.

But... don't you think that with some looks there was/is a more appealing aethetic being pursued? Like dressing androgenous as a teenager in deliberate defiance of certain gender stereotypes? (Even if it doesn't get so much attention from boys?). Getting a little off-point here, I know.

anonnymousey definitely some truth to this one. Wish it were more true, though. There are some lovely kind-looking psychopaths out there...

Well, obviously I think the goth look was hugely more aesthetically appealing than say the grunge look, or the townie look. And of course we felt like we were challenging societies perceptions. I am of course biased.

And I'm sure the fake tan/hair extensions lot think that the emo lot look silly etc. Every group think their one is the better one.

Hmmm, the 'envy' argument being wheeled out again.

It's so common these days - anyone who questions anything must be in some way envious.

Worried about inequality? Envious of wealth. Think vanity is fast approaching an epidemic? Envious of beauty.

I see your point a bit.

Like Paris Hilton and the Kardashians.

It's possible some people in those groups called them the beautiful in a slightly cynical way, though.

Yes, 20wkbaby, I've noticed that too.

Similarly, try-hard 'funny' people who become known as the 'funny one' despite being not very funny.