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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to hate it when women suggest their menflok are like an extra child?

266 replies

ChaosTrulyReigns · 25/08/2013 22:25

Angry

If he doesn't step up to the plate, get them to improve and stop enabling the behaviuor.

It's not rocket surgery.

OP posts:
yellowballoons · 26/08/2013 13:50

The trick Morloth, is to make your "work" out of it Wink

Morloth · 26/08/2013 14:08

Nah, I don't have that kind of attention spwn.

DH does, I have made a career out of my other great love - bossing people around.

I object to the generalizations about gamers.

Grunt work is split 50/50 here (well the stuff we don't outsource) and kid stuff is 50/50 as well.

Gwming has no bearing either way as neither of us are selfish arseholes.

MooseyFate · 26/08/2013 14:09

My DH is unreconstructed but his wasn't apparent to me when we first started living together. You can't always find out before you have DC. We were in love, both busy with demanding well-paid careers, and had a cleaner come in once a week. We weren't home a lot, and ate out frequently. There wasn't that much to do, and we both got stuck in. Then the first baby came along and it all started going down hill from there. For some reason becoming a parent made him revert to the way his dad was. This was not a good thing.

I have tried so hard over the years to 'get him to improve' but you can't make people change if they don't want to. If anything he got worse as we got older. The better he did in his career, the more he seemed to think that all manner of Wifework was beneath him. I even bought the Wifework book but he wouldn't read it. Only thing left now is to LTB.

Morloth · 26/08/2013 14:10

Ws for As there lazy typing.

peteypiranha · 26/08/2013 14:14

Crowler - both dh and I do 90 hours a week betwern us in manual labour jobs, but we still have to do all the housework etc.

Crowler · 26/08/2013 14:18

Morloth, if two gamers marry, then perhaps the housework would be more equally allocated.

If one gamer (most often men) marries a non-gamer (most often a woman) - problems generally follow. I never claimed it was a rule, just a correlation.

My boss is a gamer, and he's a very impressive person IRL and also helps his wife around the house is an equal partner in the household. However, I don't think he's representative of most men who are gamers.

Thumbwitch · 26/08/2013 14:34

Chaos, I'm glad you explained a little more the basis for your thread because your OP was really a bit of a shock!

It really isn't that easy to just make them do it; and tbh, when posters on MN moan about being with one of these types, there is a lot of resistance to the idea that they should be "trained" into doing the stuff that they should do. So what should we do - just give them up as a bad job and leave? What good would that do, in the end? I'd just end up having to do ALL of it anyway.

My DH appeared to be a good'un when we were in the UK. He admittedly would never run the vacuum around, but then it was my house (long boring back story) but he did share the kitchen duties half and half. He helped me re-lay the back lawn, he put shelves up for me etc. etc.
It wasn't until I'd had DS1 that I realised how bad he could be given half a chance. HIs mum came over to stay from Australia and promptly took over doing everything for him (and as much as I would let her for me) because she's that sort of person. So he let her. YES that makes him a lazy bastard for letting her, but she allowed him to abuse her willingness to be a domestic slave too. So yes, she IS at fault. As is he.

When we moved to Australia, DH reverted to fucking MCP "I man, I work; you woman, you domestic" shit. Or tried to. MIL was complicit in this - whenever she came over and the washing up was there waiting for DH to take his turn, she would bloody do it. Whenever I went back to the UK with DS1, she would come over more often and do his washing up, do his bloody washing, and in fact do everything to reinstate his position as helpless fucking male who can't do anything domestic.

Now fair enough - she had a sick husband on her hands when her 2 DSs were growing up, so I can see that it might have been easier to just do stuff rather than battle with 2 selfish buggers of sons who were used to having everything done for them - BUT if she'd only sorted them out properly in the first place, it wouldn't have BEEN a fucking battle when they got to their teens. She even TOLD me she just gave up and expected that their girlfriends would take over training them ShockHmm

Net result - DH is part teenager, part grown man. He does the grown man thing often enough to save us; but the teenager thing drives me bats. It IS hard to respect him as a partner sometimes, and I tell him so. It IS a PITA having to deal with the teenage aspect of him, and I tell him so. His mother IS a PITA for contributing to his helplessness whenever possible, and I tell him so (I have even mentioned it to her and she has reined it back a little).

But in the end, I would rather be with him and have his limited contribution to the household chores than be on my own and still have to do it ALL. DSs will both be taught that all household chores are to be done by everyone - but will of course have the not-so-great-example of their Dad in front of their eyes. (mind you, he does do his own ironing - I refuse).

I know that was a bit of a ranty essay there but really, it does annoy me that people NOT in this situation think it's an easy option to a) change him or b) leave him. It bloody isn't.

Morloth · 26/08/2013 14:35

It isn't the gaming that is the problem Crowler selfish lazy partners predate computer games.

If it wasn't gaming it would be something else.

Why people put up with this shit is beyond me.

Morloth · 26/08/2013 14:38

I love how there is still a woman to blame.

If your man is lazy it is because he wants to be, it isn't his mum's fault if he is over the age of about 16.

Thumbwitch · 26/08/2013 14:40

Morloth, you can love it or hate it as much as you want but when she bloody takes over it IS her fault as much as his for letting her. She wants to infantilise him, he lets her. Fault is equally apportioned.

FreudiansSlipper · 26/08/2013 14:47

Ok so his mum does things for him whe she is around, I think she shouldn't but he still makes the choice to be lazy when she is not around

It is his choice to be lazy and not do his fair share so you end up doing more not his mums

Morloth · 26/08/2013 14:48

Nope.

If he is a lazy arse then that is on him. She wouldn't be able to take over if he was on it.

Grown ups don't let their mummies boss them around.

Bumblequeen · 26/08/2013 15:02

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at poster's request.

Thumbwitch · 26/08/2013 15:02

Fuck me, you're offensive, Morloth. He's not a fucking toddler.

Think what you like, it's not your situation. It's mine, I deal with it as well as I can.

Morloth · 26/08/2013 15:10

He sounds like a toddler the way you are describing him.

It is not my life because I woukdnt be able to stand it. And I just don't have time for that shit.

Of course it isn't as easy as leave him and I understand tradeoffs.

But you are describing him in a way that makes him sound pathetic.

morethanpotatoprints · 26/08/2013 15:27

I can understand people being annoyed if they have a partner who is lazy and doesn't do anything at all, but I hate my dh doing housework. He does it so much better than me and puts me to shame so I prefer it when he doesn't help.
I don't do DIY, gardening, decorating, anything to do with the car.
Dh doesn't do birthdays, xmas, appointment making, most of housework.
Between us we manage what needs doing. If there is something one of us doesn't do particularly well, the other takes the slack.
I can't understand why so many people have problems with just living.

JCDenton · 26/08/2013 15:43

Everyone who thinks that normal, helpful gamers are the exception are dead wrong.

Maybe most people who play video games don't tend to broadcast it because they think that lots of ignorant people will think that they're some kind of overgrown child. A lot of people I know have no idea that I play games because sadly I'd be self-conscious about saying that I played Tomb Raider the other night. It's (rightly) no problem to say you watched X-Factor or Coronation Street last night but yet I'll apparently be thought of as a juvenile shut-in by some MN posters if I mention gaming Hmm

Thumbwitch · 26/08/2013 15:46

Glad you find it all so black and white, Morloth. Lucky ol' you, eh?

yellowballoons · 26/08/2013 16:01

I laughed too at gamers are boring and juvenile.
The posters may be right about boring, horses for courses nad all that.

But had no idea that gamers are thought of as juvenile!
That rules about about 1/3 of men or more?

jeansthatfit · 26/08/2013 16:06

Yes, do blame the women OP, that usually works.

Things to think about. As moosey says, attitudes are not always immediately apparent. The reaction when someone complains about a partner who behaves as if they expect someone else to pick up all the 'wifework' is often a jeery 'well why did you marry them then?'

Attitudes are not always immediately apparent. People often change in a relationship, and a lot of us are not in situations or circumstances which allow the whole picture to be seen right at the start (think of all the women who 'realise' they are married to an alcoholic or an emotional abuser etc).

I think maternity leave and the division of labour that happens then HUGELY disadvantages women in the long run. Men get used to working while someone else does the majority of baby care, housework and household admin - getting them to take that up again after a good year off is often unsuccessful. Especially if the woman goes back part time or in a more junior role. All the arguments of 'yes, but you are at home more/don't earn as much' are used not to work out a fair share of tasks, but to dump it all on the woman.

It's not as simple as saying 'just tell them to change or get out.' One of the huge disappointments of my adult life has been that liberal, intelligent men, who might even call themselves feminists, STILL do not shoulder their fair share of housework and house admin. They'll buy the theory - but voluntarily clean the bathroom? No, they're too busy. Doing, y'know, important stuff.

They didn't grow up seeing it done, expecting it be done, and if they experienced it in their own home, they had an entire culture surrounding them which said 'men don't Do Domestic.' My own 'feminist' (how he describes himself) dp had, in his early 30s, no real understanding of how to go about cleaning things, or keeping them tidy, or the need to stay on top of tasks. He had the domestic skills of a student, and an incompetent one at that. He had just moved from one temporary flat share to another, never had to shoulder much of a burden, never been taught stuff in his family home - in theory, he will share household work, but he won't REMEMBER to do it, has to be asked, gets resentful, and tbh still does some of it badly, etc etc - and because it has just never been part of his cognitive landscape, he feels as he is being asked to do this huge, tiresome EXTRA thing in his life.

So get real. You want to change decades and centuries of cultural conditioning by just telling someone to do it? How marvellous. Can you end racism and homophobia while you're there, too? Ta.

And as a feminist, I'd like to point out that the idea that most men in this generation would be competent and willing executors of household duties IF ONLY IT WEREN'T FOR THOSE PESKY WOMEN MUSCLING IN AND NOT LETTING THEM DO THINGS is just anti-woman nonsense.

StuntGirl · 26/08/2013 16:14

If you meet an adult man who plays video games, run for the hills

This is a ridiculous comnent. Gaming is being used as a scapegoat to shift the blame for lazy fuckers. It is not gaming that makes one lazy! That inclination is already there. If these 'lazy gamers' didn't game they'd use work, sports, or some other hobby to get ut of doing their share.

What about that woman a while ago whose husband collected and 'fixed' old bikes? Or the one recently whose husband opts out of family life twice a week to go play sports full days on the weekend? Or the ones who are always going away on golf trips or what have you? There was someone recently whose partner was theoretically building a wall in the back garden, and seemed to be using it as an excuse to have the weekends to himself 'building' rather than doing and housework/childcare or participating in family events.

I am on a gaming forum. It's majority populated by males. Today alone I've seen three seperate incidents where a poster has said they can't come online and do X thing with another gamer becauase they're doing housework/looking after the kids/finishing the hoovering.

I am a gamer. Does that mean I'm a lazy fucker? My partner is a gamer, by your definition he's a lazy fucker who should be avoided. He isn't!

Gaming isn't the issue. Lazy people who find excuses to hide behind are. And yes, lazy fuckers are best avoided.

extracrunchy · 26/08/2013 16:24

"Get them to improve" is the bit that's childlike - women shouldn't have to be teaching or disciplining their adult, ostensibly equally responsible partners!

LoopyLupo · 26/08/2013 16:25

Jeansthatfit I think thats a brilliant post.

confused3331 · 26/08/2013 16:30

What jeansthatfit said. I am married to one of the most argumentative people I know. You ask him to do stuff, he argues. After years of trying to stand my ground, has got better but I still a lot more than my fair share. He has had a crap lazy role model. At least he goes to work which is more than his dad does but you can't change it all

littlemog · 26/08/2013 16:31

I did not say that the men I had met who were gamers were lazy at all. I said that in my experience they were boring and juvenile. These things are different. I have not met any female gamers.

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