to hate it when women suggest their menflok are like an extra child?

[ChaosTrulyReigns]

If he doesn't step up to the plate, get them to improve and stop enabling the behaviuor.

It's not rocket surgery.

[ILoveSpaniels]

Hey Loopy!!

No, she doesn't have to live with him, you're right...but I think there is that inkling in women where we think we CAN change them so stick with them...or else we think it is too hard to leave, or we feel our kids need a dad...anywway, you get my drift!!

I want to ask you....are you married to my husband???

They sound so similar - I bet your OH is a good man, even a WONDERFUL man, caring and kind! He is hardworking at his job, brings money to the family, and makes you laugh.

I bet his mum loves him to bits, and likes you as well, seeing as you love her son!!!

[AgentZigzag]

TooTaboo

Part of it for the people I know who are like this is that they make out they're doing it as a measurement of how much they love the other person, enjoying the portrayal that they're caring/nurturing to anyone who'll listen the people they know. .

When in fact it's pure control.

Disobey them and you've fucking had it

[DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved]

I worry about what my son (3.5) is learning, as I hate men like this. I became disabled and have carers who do everything for me, and by extension, for him. I do ask them to get him joining in clearing up etc but I suspect they don't as it takes longer if they have to do stuff with him helping :( the carers are all women too so he does risk becoming a little prince.

You've reminded me I have to push harder to get this right. I hate being powerless in bed, people can do anything when they're out of the room (insert small scream of frustration here)

[ChaosTrulyReigns]

I think the probelms stems back to 60s/70s/80s upbringing when the boys weren't expected to contribute in teh same way a girl was.

Hopefully current parenting styles won't allow this disparity.

[TooTabooToBoo]

Oh god, again you've hit the nail on the head Artex!

Part of me feels so sorry for ex, he is totally trapped and unable to live independently. His mum is truly lovely, really, but she is also incredibly selfish for not allowing him to spread his wings. He's never known any different and there's a hell of a back story which goes some way to explain everything (far too risky to discuss here) .

Another part of me wants to shake some sense into him, he drives me potty!

[LoopyLupo]

Doearwigsmakechutney

when it doesn't, stuff is mislaid, fucked up or neglected

This sentence alone tells me you are in the situation as me.

How are you dealing with it? I've tried;

Accepting all the responsibility and not expecting anything from him - I am not a good enough person to follow this through for long. I get pissed off there is another capable adult in the house who is making my life harder not easier.

Trying to change him through various means. I have tried asking him to do something and letting him see the natural consequences of it not happening. I have tried asking and explaining really nicely. I have tried nagging. I have tried shouting in my most frustrated moments.

Now I am at the 'grow up or move out' stage.

Is there a solution which will lead to domestic bliss?

[ConfusedPixie]

Fucking yes. YADNBU.

My fucking landlord is completely enabled, ranted about him before. My landlady actively stops him being given chores in a rota and makes out that he cannot do anything, to the point where she had one night out and had to pre-cook a meal for him and put it in the freezer, he asked me how to turn on the fecking oven and I just laughed pretending I didn't realise he was being serious!

Much like Worra, I have no respect for people who do not use basic life skills for whatever reason.

[Jan49]

The trouble is, what can you do when you're married/cohabiting with someone and have children with them and they refuse to do their share (or any) household chores? Put up with it, try to change them, leave the chores that only affect them such as their washing, or leave them. Even if you were sure they would do their share before, in some cases they change after marriage or when the partner becomes a SAHP or has a baby.

My ex wasn't a "manchild" but he didn't really do any cleaning, just washing up and cooking. There were always excuses. He'd never been expected to do it until he lived with me and he didn't see that it needed doing. Our marriage broke up, though not over that, and it wouldn't have broken up over that. Would you want to break up a marriage with children because the man doesn't do any hoovering, keeping in mind that if you do, you'll be doing all the hoovering in your single parent household? My ex now lives in a messy house where neither he nor his partner do much cleaning. I'm single and live in a clean, tidy house where I do it all but at least I'm not cleaning up after another adult.

[MummyBeerest]

I too hate the whole "Big Dumb Man" and "Mum Does It All" stereotype. It's showcased in so many family sitcoms, perpetuated by older traditional family members, and unfortunately, I've witnessed it with friends.

My DH truly is my "rock" , and has been there for me in the depths of my depression. I don't know where I'd be without him as he kept me sane, my DD happy and healthy and our household in tact. I am so grateful I never bought into those bullshit stereotypes; I can't imagine I'd be 100x worse and ultimately alone.

[Mintyy]

Yes, nice, blame the woman when her dh/dp/dfather is shite. Classy.

[WorraLiberty]

Still though I'm surprised at how many women I know who see putting out the bins/DIY/Car maintenance/mowing the lawn as 'men's work'?

It baffles me how people assign gender to certain jobs.

If a job needs doing then both sexes should learn to get on and do it.

[GibberTheMonkey]

Dh does all car maintenance
I don't drive
So when I finally do it will be his job. Not because he's male but because that's how the jobs are already split
We do the bins together

[hmc]

Oh Chaos, you have all the answers don't you, you smug cow oh wise one

[AgentZigzag]

(If you were replying to me and 'Artex' was a typo TooTaboo) the people they were with didn't so much let it go on because they were lazy fuckers (although I'm sure this happens elsewhere), but they were kind of institutionalised by it, like you would be in hospital or prison.

It made them feel safe that there was someone taking care/control of things. Being responsible as an adult can be pretty scary, and even though most of us just have to fucking get on with it, if you fit two people together who thrive on that, what does it matter what other people think?

Although it's a problem if one is like that and the other loathes being responsible/dependent, or if it's an adult who's known nothing else from a parent (who makes it nigh on impossible to break free with emotional blackmail and manipulating other people to put pressure on the person).

I can kind of understand how some parents find it difficult to move on from micromanaging a child to letting the adult become independent, but there's really no excuse to not realise what they're doing.

[AdoraBell]

Mine tries To be useless, and his mother would have me believe that he is, but I know that he lived alone after his first marriage ended and survived. So he doesn't get away with being useless.

He is currently banned from using the Washing machine but only because he ruined my clothes and we use more water than is necassary already without washing his clothes and mine seperately.

And he pays someone else to iron because he tried the 'I go out to work' line when I told him ironing for four people takes a lot of time.

[Leavenheath]

This is the fault of said lazy incompetent men, not women.

If I've ever heard a woman speak about a man like another child, I've commented that it must be difficult to respect said man. As for men being controlled and kept dependent by their wives, don't make me laugh! That's what you're supposed to think, innit? Men tell other women this trope or give that impression because they know that some women just love to judge other women and to their amazement, find that they can be as lazy as fuck and still garner sympathy from other women.

I'm fucked if I'm going to blame women (partners, mums) or some mythical belief that men can't learn how to do simple tasks.

That's for people who just don't like other women, isn't it?

Put the responsibility for this where it belongs.

With the men who do fuck all. And their dads who also did fuck all.

[ChaosTrulyReigns]

What, hmc?

[hmc]

Spot on Leavenheath

[GibberTheMonkey]

Well said Leavenheath

[AgentZigzag]

Another bloke I know just comes straight out with it, 'I'm a lazy, idle bastard', he's wound it into his identity. Prides himself on being straight talking and thinks it's the other persons fault if they're disappointed because he's been upfront.

He thinks it's a legit excuse for him from doing fuck all, when in reality I suppose he's right, he was upfront about being a twat, and it is their own fault for thinking he's joking/can't be that bad/can change him.

[StuntGirl]

The trouble is, what can you do when you're married/cohabiting with someone and have children with them and they refuse to do their share (or any) household chores

How did you not know this about him before you married/moved in together?

[hmc]

Chaos, you made me -I'll admit - irrationally angry with your facile dismissal of this problem. I can only surmise that you are fortunate with your dh/ dp (which as a wife of a man child makes me jealous in spades). Sometimes 'humour' is a coping mechanism - that hackneyed but true expression 'you've got to laugh otherwise you'd cry - hence we joke about our extra child. Enabling behaviour? Bullshit!

[hmc]

Errr Stuntgirl, if you are not living together prior to marriage how on earth would you know? For starters during the early stages of a relationship people put their best foot forward, and secondly, if not living together you tend not to share household chores because - get this - your not sharing the same household!!!